New bases
 

We're all so eager to hear that the company is delaying the opening of new bases, has anyone pondered what Jay and jay will be serving the company on a silver platter in exchange for them to delay. Im sure it will cost something. Why would the company now that the TPA has expired NOT move forward with the MASTER BUSINESS PLAN. careful what you wish for guys...... Just saying

What?
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Define delayed? What I've gotten from my LC is that both MCs are working to ease the transition of the inevitable via TDY or other methods that will help all... the timing for base fills is summer or fall, which seems late to need. Also, told that contractural rights /concessions etc...are not on the table. A bid will need to come out soon regardless..

Length of time for SLI and threat of lawsuit for violating status quo

So how exactly does the displacement process work at CAL?

At UAL, we aren't simply reassigned to a new base or seat - we're displaced and have the ability to "bump" to any seat/fleet/domicile that we can hold, so any changes like bidding IAH 320 would be accompanied with displacements from other domiciles. This can cause a significant number of training events. As a for instance, if they bump DEN 320 Captains, all of those pilots can hold a minimum of 777/400 widebody in any domicile, 756 in any domicile and obviously 320 F/O everywhere. A 320 Cap might bump to 777 F/O in SFO, which might mean a 777 F/O bump to 756 or back 320 Cap, which might mean a bump from 756 to 320 F/O.... etc... I bet if they bump 500 pilots (200 lines + reserves) collectively from Den and ORD 320, that they'll generate 1000+ bumps into other seats/fleets/bases.

This would obviously be different for the F/O's as they can likely only hold 320 F/O, but they can go where they can hold - not necessarily IAH. Eventually, if IAH doesn't get filled up with voluntary bumps, and is the junior 320 base, then the most junior will get bumped into the only base they can hold.

The entire process could easily take 4-6+ monthly bids to flush out the final outcome. That might mean literally hundreds of transition courses. Each of those takes a month, plus IOE and we don't have the staffing at TK to do that based on the level of inactivity I've seen around the place. Maybe once it is spooled back up.

This doesn't take into account the fact that adding several hundred commuters into the IAH-DEN or IAH-ORD commute will be a scheduling nightmare. I can virtually assure you that the vast majority of DEN based LUAL pilots live here and can't/won't move. Involuntarily displacing from here at least with no access to bid the replacement 737 airframes (don't know about the ORD pilot community) will be a complete train wreck to bid, train and maintain schedule integrity.

Maybe, just maybe, someone near the top realized at least some of the complexity of displacing pilots that I've just outlined and are looking for a less onerous and more workable solution. Fool hardy to hope that they've done the analysis that a common line pilot is capable of, I know, but it might make at least a little sense to find a different tact than they seemed intent on taking.

***TIC Alert***

Maybe our MC can unilaterally negotiate a deal that would ease some of those restrictions in the UAL CBA in exchange for commuting benefits that would only apply to L-UAL pilots! I see how this game is played.

***See how that works?***

CAL is pretty much the same. What they have historically done is delay the training for unquals to fill the priorities or caveat only current pilots initially. Agree, on both sides, as there will be 737 guys that will be involuntarily displaced from their bases...we are due a bid regardless of the domicile issue so suspect something that gives the numbers and aircraft to be out in the next few weeks

L-CAL pilots have the same displacement rights plus a company paid move if they want it.

At least you are being honest....

Good to hear. The company's need to reconfigure fleets/base might be just enough of a trigger to get this process jump started. They need not only a JCBA, but an ISL - and reasonably quickly IMHO, if they want to start moving the chess pieces around with minimal conflict.

Don't forget that on the UA side they have to put all of the IAH out for bid to all pilots since it is a new base. Then after that, they get to begin the bumping process. This is going to generate a lot of displacements.

FWIW...heard from CAL MC, that domicile and base issues are linked to TPA extension talks directly supporting L-UA, hence the delay on the CAL bid. Expect to know more by the end of the week

Same on CAL side with DEN and ORD.

Good luck with training all these guys who might get displaced. This is in addition to the tsunami of training around the corner for replacing the 65ers. But hey. tK hired a few more PIs. That should solve it. Keep in mind if you call in sick the night before a training date that might delay your class several weeks. wink!

What do you mean by "directly supporting L-UA"? Any extension to the TPA involving domicile issues affects L-UA and L-CAL. Is there something else going on too?

Didn't mean to infer anything else other than the domicile moves, how its done and the L-CAL bid release is tied to the TPA extension discussions that hopefully will ease the domicile transition for all and provide protections ( furlough protections/ block hours )for UA pilots that are already in the CAL contract. Of course domicile protection is not in either contract...

C02 stipulates two bids per calendar year, one in the first six, one in the second six with no more than 8 months between the two bids. This gives the MEC and mgmt till somtime in March to produce another bid.

Latest from the rumor mill.... Cal bid coming soon and will show 160-180 vacancies. Will continue to go through UA furloughs until all have been contacted. After that hire off street. Why you ask? UA will start recalling this Fall. This was stated last week in a rather important mgmt meeting by a UA type.

Also, no new bases this bid.


Messenger only

When I finished class in Nov the word from some union, UA & CO management was that UAL wanted to start recalls end of Jan and CO manpower planning asked for it to be delayed till fall. That was to keep trained "New Hires" on the line till summer was over. Overall manpower management guy is CO. The recall notice had to start by 1 Feb to achieve the UA goal of having recalled pilots on the line by May.
Guess CO manpower won the argument.

Well it sounds like cal manpower planning. Thats for sure.:rolleyes:

I'm not trying to be combative here, but even if the manpower planning guy was a legacy United guy, CAL is getting 19 new 737-900ERs and 6 787s this year, so the staffing is going up on that side. (at worst case neutral, but most likely a net gain)

However the legacy United side isn't getting any new aircraft. They haven't announced how many aircraft they are sending to the boneyard yet for 2012. I imagine we'll probably see that data tomorrow during the earnings report.

I imagine we'll see some 737-500s and 767-200s on the CAL side get sold or parked this year, but overall some growth on the CAL side(We'll see how much. On the UAL side, we'll probably see 1 or 2 747s parked, to produce an overall decrease, albeit minor.

Didn't see anything combative. Understand CO manpower's position. What it shows is the difference in how the 2 sides man their airline. UA for weather/sick and CO to man the airline for day to day flying.
If I was in charge of both I would side with the CO point of view. Just sucks that 70-100+ could have been recalled next month and opening those same positions at CO for furloughed UA pilots.

Yup. As long as work rules are cheaper at CAL the work will migrate to CAL, and so will the UAL pilots. This may accelerate our journey to the RLA end game as IMO every UAL pilot flying CAL rules is another no vote.

I look forward to seeing Jeff and the boys try to keep up with the huge amount of training to shuffle flying at the same time dealing wih the tsunami of retirements and pre retirement sick leave use kicks them I the sack.


Why the hell are the LCAs still volunteering to do that work with the state of the contract going nowhere?

because they are gettin paid AND there are 500 more in line RIGHT behind them if they waiver!

My thinking also, and they can get the JCBA done sooner than later.

Perhaps on the CAL side

The rumor on the UAL side is between 15-20 757's parked. So far I believe 3 are gone (one in shiny brand-new paint). Of course, the company does that ever so quietly. Nice way for them to keep the JCBA stretched out without having to generate more training events. Just keep shrinking the UAL side at about the same rate of attrition and you don't have to recall anybody! Genius!

The 2012 fleet plan shows different numbers....5 RJs and 5 B767-200...
Not sure how to attach the PDF file on here...Hope this link works:

- Information

It also shows 5 757s. I doubt they are L-CAL's.

Rumors that 15 to 20 B757 were leaving did not add up to the 2012 fleet plan, that is why I posted. What the future holds beyond that will affect ALL of us....JCBA, single list ect....