Lerxst

Because it never happened. He never left Calex to work for Ornstein,contrary to popular myth. Like you said, your story makes zero sense.

SpecialTracking

If he never left Continental Express, then why did the CALEX pilots file a grievance against Pierce when he returned to work with full seniority after having resigned his employment to work for Ornstein? One would assume that prior to Fred Abbott rehiring Pierce, Pierce would have resigned his position at a prior date?

Even a pilot born without a nose could find this skunk.

Lerxst

That story has been told and embellished soo many times that it defies logic. I mean, really, doesn't it sound too implausible to be true?

He never left, it was assumed he would leave with Bob Brayton and others from Co Express mgmt to go start Virgin Express in Brussels after Ornstein was forced out in late 1995. Never signed a resignation letter, and it was Coex that he was at, not Cal, where he remained until flowing over in 1997 so Cal wouldnt have been involved anyway, Dave Siegel replaced Ornstein in Nov 1995. Can't speak about a grievance as I never heard about or saw one, and Fred Abbot wasn't the guy in charge of Flt Ops at Cal at that time, it was Debbie McCoy.

I remember there being some angst about his supposed turn about, but it quickly died out when nobody could provide any document support to the resignation theory.

There is plenty to be cautious of with Pierce,as there is with any elected rep. I just find most of the shotgun anonymous mailings about him to have a lot of hype and speculation and little in substantial fact.

He's made a lot of unpopular decisions but he'll answer to all of them. Might not like the answer, but he'll give you one.

All the UA guys were spun up about the Family Awareness event in FLL last month; they were really gonna show him! There was only one comment after the fact by a UA guy in attendance:

-Jay Pierce. The man definitely has presence. I have to admit I like the guy and find him genuine. He doesn't necessarily say what you want to hear just to placate you. I understand until we have a joint MEC he still represents interests different from the UAL pilots. I totally get that. Overall, my sense is that he understands how the game is played, and given the hand he is dealt, that he is effective.

-Pierce was asked if he wanted Fred Abbot's job. And if he would be willing to sign a commit not to take ANY management t job for 5 years. Pierce responded by saying that he already committed in writing to NEVER take ANY management job EVER .

I would suggest if you have questions,email him. Or just continue to read anonymous agenda driven skewering from places like Alparepcheck
You know, the site started by Kravit about 2 weeks after he left office. No agenda there.

DocW

I've been on the property for 25 years and I would have to say that this information is probably 90% correct. Corruption, fighting from within for power and failing to represent the pilots; it's time for the new United to use all their members to eliminate these useless bastards and the first one being Jay Pierce.

30west

I was there when all that went down. We could pass once when they were flowing up to CAL and many did this but the next time it came to you had to go or lose your number. Some guys were passed over by the company CALEX due to,staffing needs they would say. I do remember when JP moved into his management position under J. Oreinstein who had come from MESA to run CALEX he was there around a year, JP number came up the second time , he stayed to be in management. He isn't the only pilot at CAL that got a special deal there are at least 10 that got put back on the CAL seniority list that weren't there in the early 90's but are at CAL now and I know of one that actually left CAL/CALEX for another company and came back and is now on the CAL list. So yes lots of funny business with the seniority list at CAL.

Also he flowed over before 97 since I was a flow over in spring of 97 and he was over before me. All the 80XXX had to go over that were left over at express in between Dec 96-Sep 97 to get rid of us high dollar capts so they could start to arrange the spin-off to create express-jet. A giant bid was put out that sent all remaining flow-thru guys over. So JP can tell you all whatever but I was there and saw it all. Nothing to prove for me

Lerxst

Jay and many others I guess were deemed too important to leave Calex had their dates deferred. But he never left Calex to go with Ornstein to Virgin Express like Brayton did. He finally went over in late 96 or early 97. When I was in class in 99 there was another 80xxx mgmt guy in with me that had been deferred to the point of being a senior 757 line holding FO straight outta training. Our list is a mess with the different mergers, integrations, flow thrus, etc.

The ten guys you are talking about from the early 90's that got put back on, are those the "Terry Neal Group"?

30west

Check your facts, Oreinstein was number 2 guy at MESA under Larry Risley(sp) he left there came to CALEx for about a year left went to run Virgin Express in Europe for his buddy Branson for about year and then came back to the states to run MESA as CEO . I never said JP went to Virgin express(he wasn't invited to go like Oriensteins other inner circle of people) He made his choice to stay in management then got screwed since Oreinstein left him when they went to Virgin Express he had to ask CAL management for his number back.

No Im not talking about the Neal group I was a 89 Britt guy and I dont want to name guys from Bar Harbor, Britt and Rocky that got deals but I can. Jay got a deal, the guy in class may have been a deal.

Lerxst

Yeah, I forgot Johnny O double dipped at Mesa, but you weren't the one who said Jay left... That's been the rumor on here that he went with Johnny and then came back and Fred Abbot had to work out a deal for him. Jay, and many others, like you say from the various Calex got deals to stay longer so that they wouldnt be junior when they actually came over to Cal.

30west

I don't want to leave the impression that all kinds of deals were made. Every pilot that got a deal fell into a category J Pierce was a management guy thats why he got a deal another few pilots 3-5 total were in training dept had given up their number like Jay Pierce because it was a cushy job for a commuter job could make 6 figures working the system Steve T told me once but all that was going to go away when talks of the new Express jet started and then those guys wanted their numbers back and got them though they were moved down from their original position if they had gone over, Also some guys didn't pass CAL interviews / medicals/ psych test in 88 when program started but when 97 rolled around management wanted to get rid of them send them to Cal they didn't get their 88 dates though, J Pierce got his actual date back from 89 and how he got it only he knows what he said to Debbie McCoy and CAL management

Flytolive

30 West,

Thank you for adding the details that were missing, to yet another telling story to the character of Jay Pierce. It amazes me how this self-serving management wannabe and opportunist is now the head of the CAL-MEC. Incredible.