Jay pierce; Undermines Pilot Profession
03-20-2012, 07:41 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by TruthHurts
What has to be done is what I am advocating and that is every pilot must object in writing to their respective union representative asking for union leader(s) removal (recall) or a Vote of No Confidence.
.
.
Finally, if you have never met the MEC Chairman, who shall not be named, then how can I take you seriously? He is accessible at almost every LEC meeting as well as multiple other events. Certainly if you have damning evidence you could bring it to light at one of those meeting and flush him out. Certainly all these pilots who agree with you will be there to support you and back you up.
I could take or leave our Union leadership and I will be the first to jump on board to expel a corrupt leader. However, I need evidence of such corruption, not conjecture and suspicion. I do not wish to be part of a witch hunt.
03-20-2012, 07:57 AM
#42
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by CALFO
Finally, if you have never met the MEC Chairman, who shall not be named, then how can I take you seriously? He is accessible at almost every LEC meeting as well as multiple other events. Certainly if you have damning evidence you could bring it to light at one of those meeting and flush him out. Certainly all these pilots who agree with you will be there to support you and back you up.
I could take or leave our Union leadership and I will be the first to jump on board to expel a corrupt leader. However, I need evidence of such corruption, not conjecture and suspicion. I do not wish to be part of a witch hunt.
I could take or leave our Union leadership and I will be the first to jump on board to expel a corrupt leader. However, I need evidence of such corruption, not conjecture and suspicion. I do not wish to be part of a witch hunt.
It seems extremely logical if there's a 'smoking gun' by way of history/facts/proof that Capt "Truth" presents, then he needs to be 100% "man enough" to attend the LEC meeting, follow Roberts Rules of Order, and make his/hers case.
If the author of these various diatribes/threads has such infallible information, and wants to take the initiative in such a matter to the lead the charge with his gaggle of constituents as he claims, I WILL be there live in person to listen to his "claims".....I can guarentee you that. EWR, IAH, CLE, LAX....pick your location....I'll certainly be there. Until such time, lobbing all sorts of claims as "fact" is pretty spineless without having the 'coconuts' to stand before council at any LEC meeting where J.P. is present. If you want to recall, spear head a "vote of no confidence", lets see it. The old adage comes to mind, "Walk the talk".
Between the mile long posts of claims that you call "fact", PLEASE keep us abreast as to when/where we can listen to your case, live in person, as it resides in front of any LEC Council. If that is to take place, I'm sure there will be plenty of L-UAL brother/sisters that would like to attend as well.
Until then "Truth".....Regards.
03-20-2012, 08:12 AM
#43
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by CALFO
No I am not posting anonymously. My name actually is CALFO. I like anonymous boards but I don't like the few individuals that use them to push a smear campaign. If this person is legit and has actual evidence to incriminate Pierce that he/she should have the courage to bring it to fellow union members with his name behind it.
As I stated earlier, everything he said may be accurate. I don't know. Aside from Pierce himself, there isn't anyone who knows his true motivations.
What details have emerged from the story? That Pierce worked in management at express? That pierce has some union involvement during contract 02? That's public information.
What bothers me is when some broken facts are distorted to paint a picture of someone. There are some monumental leaps in logic here. The poster has contributed nothing to this board other than his disdain for Pierce.
As I stated earlier, everything he said may be accurate. I don't know. Aside from Pierce himself, there isn't anyone who knows his true motivations.
What details have emerged from the story? That Pierce worked in management at express? That pierce has some union involvement during contract 02? That's public information.
What bothers me is when some broken facts are distorted to paint a picture of someone. There are some monumental leaps in logic here. The poster has contributed nothing to this board other than his disdain for Pierce.
I want to remind you that CAL's current pilot contract is probably the most debilitating in airline history. I want to also remind you that those responsible for this horrific contract are leading your union or are former union leaders who are now working for management. Considering that your career is in the hands of a select few people who are tone deaf to your needs, I would think that you would welcome honest discourse about this subject.
Thread subject concerns merger. Let me ask you, considering the merger, what safety net has our union leaders provided for you? The answer is "Nothing. Zero. Nadda."
Where as, UAL pilots have No Furlough provisions and other work rules that protect them. If Mr. Pierce is such a brilliant leader, then why has he done absolutely nothing to help protect our pilots? By the way, unless the company goes out of business or UAL puts all of us at the bottom of their seniority list, I have nothing to worry about. I am very senior. It is you who will most probably suffer.
I have been on two merger committee's at previous airlines. I have lost a job in a merger and lost a job by bankruptcy. I am telling you from first hand experience that one man or a small group of union leaders can adversely affect your career and life. I can truthfully tell you that you are heading to the bottom of the UAL seniority list. Your reaction to this statement will be emotional rather than using common sense and facts. Law and precedent set policy and not emotion.
Your current union leadership has done nothing but help management undermine our seniority system. That is not an opinion. That is FACT. I have made several posts detailing these abuses. It starts from PBS, to cross utilization of pilots. Your current union leaders have helped put those things together for management and they are not making any realistic complaints. Now, let's look at the future.
To effectively negotiate you must put yourself in the other man's shoes. Put yourself into UAL pilots shoes. What do you think they expect out of the merger? What power do you think UAL ALPA has over CAL ALPA? Do you think UAL pilots will wield that power over CAL pilots?
What power does CAL ALPA have? What political connections? What money do we have? Are our union leaders experienced and hard core union?
The answer to those things are "none." CAL ALPA has no power at all. We have no solidarity. Most of our pilots are apathetic and could not care less one way or another. We have no merger money. We have no political connections. CAL management has just cut ties with Texas and Houston greatly angering local politicians (These things have been in the news). Where as, UAL is headquartered in the most infamous union hot bed of America, Chicago. They have all of the political and legal connections. You still don't know what I'm talking about, do you?
Your own Administrator thinks the seniority process will move to arbitration. That alone expresses his lack of faith in our union leaders. You are also assuming that the arbitrator is fair and not being influenced. You might want to ask returning CAL Strikers and Jim Bruscia's PEX pilots if they got a fair deal from an arbitrator. The reason CA Jim Bruscia leads our Merger Committee is because he has held a brick on his shoulder for over 20 years now. He's still angry about his sub-seniority. My point being is that you some how think an arbitrator is going to be fair and somehow see things your way. Let's consider "YOUR WAY."
CAL junior pilots with 5 and 6 years seniority actually think they are going to get super seniority and either have parity with or exceed UAL pilots hired in 1997. IF the arbitrator is making fair decisions, he has to use legal precedent. To my knowledge, no arbitrator in history has given 10 years super seniority to any labor group or individual.
The bottom line is this. You have false expectations. You have put your faith into union leaders who know these things and are doing nothing to help you. They will drag out the process for as long as possible giving you the ILLUSION of doing something for you but in reality they are only hanging on to their union jobs for as long as possible. Mr. Pierce has managed to infuriate UAL MEC and those things WILL WORK AGAINST YOU.
This is not an anti-union statement. I am far right aggressive union. This is an abuse of power, time and union assets. That is what I object to. I object to those who are corrupt and self dealing.
The solution? You MUST rid our union of our current union leadership. That is still not going to get you super seniority but it will eliminate self dealing at your expense.
Remember, Senority is not a right. Seniority is a negotiated item. Those in charge of these things CAN DO ALMOST ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT TO DO. No, you can't just sue. You must file a grievance (s). You must use the system. If the system can't accommodate your seniority claims then you MAY be released to self help or civil action. The problem is now you must come up with the money to sue UAL ALPA. Good luck.
I am on your side. That's why I strongly suggest that you rid our union of our leadership as soon as possible. Your career depends on it.
03-20-2012, 08:29 AM
#44
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy
Nothing short of well put.....Spot on.
It seems extremely logical if there's a 'smoking gun' by way of history/facts/proof that Capt "Truth" presents, then he needs to be 100% "man enough" to attend the LEC meeting, follow Roberts Rules of Order, and make his/hers case.
If the author of these various diatribes/threads has such infallible information, and wants to take the initiative in such a matter to the lead the charge with his gaggle of constituents as he claims, I WILL be there live in person to listen to his "claims".....I can guarentee you that. EWR, IAH, CLE, LAX....pick your location....I'll certainly be there. Until such time, lobbing all sorts of claims as "fact" is pretty spineless without having the 'coconuts' to stand before council at any LEC meeting where J.P. is present. If you want to recall, spear head a "vote of no confidence", lets see it. The old adage comes to mind, "Walk the talk".
Between the mile long posts of claims that you call "fact", PLEASE keep us abreast as to when/where we can listen to your case, live in person, as it resides in front of any LEC Council. If that is to take place, I'm sure there will be plenty of L-UAL brother/sisters that would like to attend as well.
Until then "Truth".....Regards.
It seems extremely logical if there's a 'smoking gun' by way of history/facts/proof that Capt "Truth" presents, then he needs to be 100% "man enough" to attend the LEC meeting, follow Roberts Rules of Order, and make his/hers case.
If the author of these various diatribes/threads has such infallible information, and wants to take the initiative in such a matter to the lead the charge with his gaggle of constituents as he claims, I WILL be there live in person to listen to his "claims".....I can guarentee you that. EWR, IAH, CLE, LAX....pick your location....I'll certainly be there. Until such time, lobbing all sorts of claims as "fact" is pretty spineless without having the 'coconuts' to stand before council at any LEC meeting where J.P. is present. If you want to recall, spear head a "vote of no confidence", lets see it. The old adage comes to mind, "Walk the talk".
Between the mile long posts of claims that you call "fact", PLEASE keep us abreast as to when/where we can listen to your case, live in person, as it resides in front of any LEC Council. If that is to take place, I'm sure there will be plenty of L-UAL brother/sisters that would like to attend as well.
Until then "Truth".....Regards.
I have stood up to our union. Where are you? Why should I put my ass out on a line for you while you sit back and call the rest of us names hiding in your gopher hole? This is not a one man mission. All pilots need to voice their discontent about our inept union leadership. Contact your union representative today or forever suffer the consequences. Your choice.
03-20-2012, 12:52 PM
#45
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by TruthHurts
Sir, posting facts about union leader actions are not an expression of disdain. Although, analysis of those actions can lead to ill feelings. You seem to be violating your own code of fairness by showing me great disdain for daring to challenge CAL union leadership.
I want to remind you that CAL's current pilot contract is probably the most debilitating in airline history. I want to also remind you that those responsible for this horrific contract are leading your union or are former union leaders who are now working for management. Considering that your career is in the hands of a select few people who are tone deaf to your needs, I would think that you would welcome honest discourse about this subject.
Thread subject concerns merger. Let me ask you, considering the merger, what safety net has our union leaders provided for you? The answer is "Nothing. Zero. Nadda."
Where as, UAL pilots have No Furlough provisions and other work rules that protect them. If Mr. Pierce is such a brilliant leader, then why has he done absolutely nothing to help protect our pilots? By the way, unless the company goes out of business or UAL puts all of us at the bottom of their seniority list, I have nothing to worry about. I am very senior. It is you who will most probably suffer.
I have been on two merger committee's at previous airlines. I have lost a job in a merger and lost a job by bankruptcy. I am telling you from first hand experience that one man or a small group of union leaders can adversely affect your career and life. I can truthfully tell you that you are heading to the bottom of the UAL seniority list. Your reaction to this statement will be emotional rather than using common sense and facts. Law and precedent set policy and not emotion.
Your current union leadership has done nothing but help management undermine our seniority system. That is not an opinion. That is FACT. I have made several posts detailing these abuses. It starts from PBS, to cross utilization of pilots. Your current union leaders have helped put those things together for management and they are not making any realistic complaints. Now, let's look at the future.
To effectively negotiate you must put yourself in the other man's shoes. Put yourself into UAL pilots shoes. What do you think they expect out of the merger? What power do you think UAL ALPA has over CAL ALPA? Do you think UAL pilots will wield that power over CAL pilots?
What power does CAL ALPA have? What political connections? What money do we have? Are our union leaders experienced and hard core union?
The answer to those things are "none." CAL ALPA has no power at all. We have no solidarity. Most of our pilots are apathetic and could not care less one way or another. We have no merger money. We have no political connections. CAL management has just cut ties with Texas and Houston greatly angering local politicians (These things have been in the news). Where as, UAL is headquartered in the most infamous union hot bed of America, Chicago. They have all of the political and legal connections. You still don't know what I'm talking about, do you?
Your own Administrator thinks the seniority process will move to arbitration. That alone expresses his lack of faith in our union leaders. You are also assuming that the arbitrator is fair and not being influenced. You might want to ask returning CAL Strikers and Jim Bruscia's PEX pilots if they got a fair deal from an arbitrator. The reason CA Jim Bruscia leads our Merger Committee is because he has held a brick on his shoulder for over 20 years now. He's still angry about his sub-seniority. My point being is that you some how think an arbitrator is going to be fair and somehow see things your way. Let's consider "YOUR WAY."
CAL junior pilots with 5 and 6 years seniority actually think they are going to get super seniority and either have parity with or exceed UAL pilots hired in 1997. IF the arbitrator is making fair decisions, he has to use legal precedent. To my knowledge, no arbitrator in history has given 10 years super seniority to any labor group or individual.
The bottom line is this. You have false expectations. You have put your faith into union leaders who know these things and are doing nothing to help you. They will drag out the process for as long as possible giving you the ILLUSION of doing something for you but in reality they are only hanging on to their union jobs for as long as possible. Mr. Pierce has managed to infuriate UAL MEC and those things WILL WORK AGAINST YOU.
This is not an anti-union statement. I am far right aggressive union. This is an abuse of power, time and union assets. That is what I object to. I object to those who are corrupt and self dealing.
The solution? You MUST rid our union of our current union leadership. That is still not going to get you super seniority but it will eliminate self dealing at your expense.
Remember, Senority is not a right. Seniority is a negotiated item. Those in charge of these things CAN DO ALMOST ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT TO DO. No, you can't just sue. You must file a grievance (s). You must use the system. If the system can't accommodate your seniority claims then you MAY be released to self help or civil action. The problem is now you must come up with the money to sue UAL ALPA. Good luck.
I am on your side. That's why I strongly suggest that you rid our union of our leadership as soon as possible. Your career depends on it.
I want to remind you that CAL's current pilot contract is probably the most debilitating in airline history. I want to also remind you that those responsible for this horrific contract are leading your union or are former union leaders who are now working for management. Considering that your career is in the hands of a select few people who are tone deaf to your needs, I would think that you would welcome honest discourse about this subject.
Thread subject concerns merger. Let me ask you, considering the merger, what safety net has our union leaders provided for you? The answer is "Nothing. Zero. Nadda."
Where as, UAL pilots have No Furlough provisions and other work rules that protect them. If Mr. Pierce is such a brilliant leader, then why has he done absolutely nothing to help protect our pilots? By the way, unless the company goes out of business or UAL puts all of us at the bottom of their seniority list, I have nothing to worry about. I am very senior. It is you who will most probably suffer.
I have been on two merger committee's at previous airlines. I have lost a job in a merger and lost a job by bankruptcy. I am telling you from first hand experience that one man or a small group of union leaders can adversely affect your career and life. I can truthfully tell you that you are heading to the bottom of the UAL seniority list. Your reaction to this statement will be emotional rather than using common sense and facts. Law and precedent set policy and not emotion.
Your current union leadership has done nothing but help management undermine our seniority system. That is not an opinion. That is FACT. I have made several posts detailing these abuses. It starts from PBS, to cross utilization of pilots. Your current union leaders have helped put those things together for management and they are not making any realistic complaints. Now, let's look at the future.
To effectively negotiate you must put yourself in the other man's shoes. Put yourself into UAL pilots shoes. What do you think they expect out of the merger? What power do you think UAL ALPA has over CAL ALPA? Do you think UAL pilots will wield that power over CAL pilots?
What power does CAL ALPA have? What political connections? What money do we have? Are our union leaders experienced and hard core union?
The answer to those things are "none." CAL ALPA has no power at all. We have no solidarity. Most of our pilots are apathetic and could not care less one way or another. We have no merger money. We have no political connections. CAL management has just cut ties with Texas and Houston greatly angering local politicians (These things have been in the news). Where as, UAL is headquartered in the most infamous union hot bed of America, Chicago. They have all of the political and legal connections. You still don't know what I'm talking about, do you?
Your own Administrator thinks the seniority process will move to arbitration. That alone expresses his lack of faith in our union leaders. You are also assuming that the arbitrator is fair and not being influenced. You might want to ask returning CAL Strikers and Jim Bruscia's PEX pilots if they got a fair deal from an arbitrator. The reason CA Jim Bruscia leads our Merger Committee is because he has held a brick on his shoulder for over 20 years now. He's still angry about his sub-seniority. My point being is that you some how think an arbitrator is going to be fair and somehow see things your way. Let's consider "YOUR WAY."
CAL junior pilots with 5 and 6 years seniority actually think they are going to get super seniority and either have parity with or exceed UAL pilots hired in 1997. IF the arbitrator is making fair decisions, he has to use legal precedent. To my knowledge, no arbitrator in history has given 10 years super seniority to any labor group or individual.
The bottom line is this. You have false expectations. You have put your faith into union leaders who know these things and are doing nothing to help you. They will drag out the process for as long as possible giving you the ILLUSION of doing something for you but in reality they are only hanging on to their union jobs for as long as possible. Mr. Pierce has managed to infuriate UAL MEC and those things WILL WORK AGAINST YOU.
This is not an anti-union statement. I am far right aggressive union. This is an abuse of power, time and union assets. That is what I object to. I object to those who are corrupt and self dealing.
The solution? You MUST rid our union of our current union leadership. That is still not going to get you super seniority but it will eliminate self dealing at your expense.
Remember, Senority is not a right. Seniority is a negotiated item. Those in charge of these things CAN DO ALMOST ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT TO DO. No, you can't just sue. You must file a grievance (s). You must use the system. If the system can't accommodate your seniority claims then you MAY be released to self help or civil action. The problem is now you must come up with the money to sue UAL ALPA. Good luck.
I am on your side. That's why I strongly suggest that you rid our union of our leadership as soon as possible. Your career depends on it.
It never matters who is in office when it comes to the CAL MEC. You and your brethern ALWAYS want whomever is in office out, no matter what the situation or how their track has been. The problem is that you and your brethern never get elected and this ****es you off to no end. You can't have it so you and your minions do everything possible to make sure that no one at CAL has ever had decent representation. Your answer, get rid of the representation and elect me. Never gonna happen tool.
03-20-2012, 01:03 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by EWR73FO
It never matters who is in office when it comes to the CAL MEC. You and your brethern ALWAYS want whomever is in office out, no matter what the situation or how their track has been. The problem is that you and your brethern never get elected and this ****es you off to no end. You can't have it so you and your minions do everything possible to make sure that no one at CAL has ever had decent representation. Your answer, get rid of the representation and elect me. Never gonna happen tool.
Is he wrong? Address some of the issues. Why do you keep attacking him instead of the message.
03-20-2012, 05:57 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by Flytolive
Why would a Master Chairman attend "almost every LEC meeting?"
03-20-2012, 06:14 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by XHooker
He makes most of the EWR LEC meetings and I'd guess even more in IAH. The vast majority of CAL pilots are in those two domiciles and IAH is where the MEC HQ is. Don't know about the rest of the (much smaller) domiciles. The point is, it's not hard to find him.
03-21-2012, 06:00 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by Once United
I guess he likes to attend the LEC meetings to keep you guys in line and not allow free thinking and discussion to fester into a "recall resolution". Would you back up and look at this? He works for you through your LEC's. Ask you DELTA buddies if this happens over there. What is he afraid of.
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