Blockoutblockin

Actually his only mission in life is to smear Jay Pierce. And he can't get rid of JP without the "junior pilots" help hence the fear mongering. Pretty comical for a slicktie.

Once United

What is smear and what is the truth? You don't address the issues just the man. Why is that?

LeeFXDWG

Once,

Never did I say planned, but people were sacrificed in order to save the A Plan with the moves that were made. "The gun to the head" position only goes so far with me. Decisions were made regardless of why they had to be made knowing it would cost jobs. I do believe that the final decision was made knowing that fact would be the undesireable outcome.

Now, say go back to C2000. In the negotiation process all things have a dollar sign, or cost attached to them. Things like Int'l override for Capts (meant originally to compensate FO's exercising the PIC of their ATP), senior manning, coming up with a last minute red-line paychart hitting the 5 or less year FO's to shift dollars to pay for the WB 28% increase.....

And, I could go on. In good times and bad, yes, the MEC has made decisions that hurt the junior to help the senior.

It is what it is. The paradigm shift that needs to happen is that there really isn't a situation in the industry anymore where using that tactic works. There is no nirvana at the upper end of the seniority list anymore that warrants the "paying your dues" until you get there.

Yes, seniority (and relative seniority in fleet/seat) should always result in some "perks" regarding schedule, vaca, etc. It has no merit now taking from one side of the list to plus up the senior for things like FAE and so on really don't exist anymore. And, having the junior continue to try and make up for the loss of the A Plan is a non-starter.

Your retirement, etc., is all about what you made while you were there and put into the B/C Fund. But, to trully take care of all the pilots and benefit them the most, you'd be better off making more initially realizing that your top pay at retirement might be reduced as a result. Time value of money and all.

That paradigm shift really hasn't occurred nor do I expect it to until all that have that "I paid my dues" mentallity finally retire.

After all, we've really all paid our dues. I'm sure those twice furloughed feel they have paid their dues.

IMO, yes, your time at the company and what you fly should equate to more income......not to the extent you create a cast system. The MEC should have the sight picture that all pilots are equally capable and valuable to the company line. The spectrum between pay disparity needs to be shrunk.

Frats,
Lee

LeeFXDWG

Block,

Actually, based on some informal updates I get from contacts, sounds like JP is doing a fine job of digging his own grave in this process. As to the slicktie, well if it's true, so be it. He/She is also a part of the problem then.

Frats,
Lee

intrepidcv11

Sweet another person with info updates from 'contacts'! This board is always well served by this kind of skulduggery.

LeeFXDWG

If your intent is to inflame...won't work with me. Take what I posted and feel free to disregard. The facts seem to speak for themselve.

There was no "skullduggery" implied. Merely speaking my opinion.

Take, or leave at your discretion.

No personal agenda here on that topic. If you're a CAL guy and love JP, great. Shall we say his personal capital has limited value at Nat'l.

Frats,
Lee

Once United

I've read some of you writings. We are not far apart on most things, but I do take exception to a few.

"I paid my dues" not sure what to make of that. I think it should be "I've earned the right to be senior". That right is based solely on being on property. If you are suggesting that we all earn the same regardless of seat, seniority or equipment, I'm all for it if we make 747 Capt pay. More likely we'll be making 320 F/O pay. I don't feel guilty about being senior or making money - neither should anybody else.

Can't blame a senior guy for our bad contracts or perceived injustice in contracts, ask yourself if you voted(I think you did). The relative old/senior guys have not had a majority since we started voting on our contracts. That's one of the reasons RD didn't want contract ratification. We've had ratification since the mid 80's I think.

You do a service for the United pilots with most of your writings. Keep up the good work - Thanks!

LeeFXDWG

I believe I said in my post that longevity/seniority should result in more pay and perks like when you get vacation, etc. I'll have to re-read it to make sure.

And, "paid our dues," only means that everyone has suffered in one way or the other.

My only point was really that gains or losses in negotiations should be weighted/distributed equally IMO. Especially now that things like the A Plan don't exist. It is a hard sell to say, "you'll get there one day" when "there" doesn't exist anymore.

For C2000, a 28% WB vs 20% NB raise was not equal. Delta DOT aside, I will use that as an example. A change AFTER ratification was made to the year 1-5 FO NB pay to help pay for that.

You only have "X" amount in total compensation. The MEC and not the company deside how to distribute it. BTW, I voted NO on C2000 for scope as well as some of the other items I've posted.

I in no way begrudge the senior for being senior. And I think it should provide one with more pay, choice of equipment you fly, a better schedule, and so on. Of course it should.

What it should never do is allow the MEC to bias its distribution of contractual gains in such a way that excessively favors the senior to the detriment of the junior. Any "negotiating capital" the union spends needs to spent to equally improve the pay and QWL of all pilots equally.

That was my point and thanks for the kind words. I hope UAL will once again be my airline of choice. It was once and then became an environment I decided to voluntarily leave. I will return when offered recall if the environment is again acceptable.

Frats, and never intended a senior/junior flame debate. Just to say, history shows that decisions are made both voluntarily and by necessity that have sacrificed the junior side of the list.

Lee

Skybo

Real cute blockoutblockin. Why don't you use your real name? My name is John Ringel. I did not write the passage about Pierce above. Nor did Vince Scotto. I just found out about it just recently. You see, I don't (either does Vince) have a problem putting my name on anything we write. I don't hide behind nicknames. How about you? What's your real name? Let's talk. You man enough? Yeah right. Go back into the shadows and hide.

Skybo

There you go again.... You will go down with Pierce and the rest like Jayson Baron. By the way, I am proud I DON"T WEAR AN ALPA PIN! I don't give a damn about this corrupt organization. I have principles I live by. ALPA doesn't have any.