Was there really a legal agreement?

If they say 'no', what is the companies basis for further delay and removing the alleged mid Jun 'agreement'? Spite?

That's all the more reason for US to have 'lobbyists'.

I'm confused. Which timeline? We've all agreed on so many that I lose track.

You really need to think this through in more detail. This isn't a one shot Hail Mary.... Even if they say 'no', there is no harm or jeopardy in asking. Last I checked the RLA doesn't limit the number of times we can ask.

I can understand where you're coming from if you think the company is negotiating in good faith. But if that's what you think then we have bigger problems than agreeing on strategy. If, on the other hand, you believe the company has not been negotiating in good faith, then why would you object to asking for release?

Have your MEC chairman call our MEC chairman. Let's get this done.

"I can understand where you're coming from if you think the company is negotiating in good faith."

Granted, I may not be very smart...but for the life of me I can't understand where anyone thinks that the company has been negotiating in good faith.
We are being stalled. We are being taken advantage of. And I, for one, am damn tired of it. They can't run the airline without us. If people can't see that after 2+ years...they will never be in agreement with us. Don't waste energy on them.

Shack!

CALFO~
The points/facts above are spot on. After conversing with the MEC member who went on record, and forwent signing JP's letter last week echoed exactly what you stated. He stated that the entire CAL-MEC was NOT briefed, thus his motion to NOT endorse the summary w/o being directly briefed by JH's gang (open discussion/Q & A) would have been disingenuous on his part.

I will be he FIRST to admit, having the respective MEC's display a public unwillingness to work in concert is appalling. Hopefully both J's (and their gang's) will get "lock-step" before pulling the aforementioned "release" trigger in a matter of weeks.

Clocks tick'in.

F16....Don't object to a release at all and of couse the company hasnt negotiates in good faith..But I do object to your MCs finger to the CAL pilots by not communicating with my leadership on what is clearly a joint decison. In fact, i like the intent and aggressiveness... if it doesnt screw up a better approach/ strategy to getting a JCBA sooner. No one but UA knows and thats not good enough..UA MEC may have done this level of strategy development but no one on the CAL side is yet briefed. iIf he has a gameplan that will work, then count me in...but dont expect CAL guys to blindly trust your leadership above our own until he communicates with us. If he wants our support then talk with the other half of joint...

Don't display weakness and doubt - it scares JP.

What you're trying to say is if JH is right - you're good with it and if he's wrong, you were against it all along. Fair weather?

Can we get Obama and the NMB on the line too?

Let's have a "party line"....................a conga line, or a picket line. But, just those 2 won't cut it.

This is too funny.

popcorn, beer, moon crickets a chirpin.....


Come on.............ya'll be cool.

Peddle on, ONCE again, nothing of worth here.....

Jay Hepner was part the the UAL MEC negotiating committee so I think he knows better than most if the company is "negotiaing" in good faith or not. I support him 100%. It's time to get a contract. NOW.

Are you also aware that no one on either negotiating committee, even the UAL NC knew about JH's "grenade" letter until it happened?

I want a contract just as much as the next person, but right now it appears as if JH doing more to hurt negotiations than help. I'm on board with getting released and I'll go do another job for as long as it takes if we were to get released.

Do the UAL guys on here want to do this alone or do they want their CAL brethren on board? (real legit question)

If they want the CAL guys on board with the plan, then we have to know the plan.

"Trust me, I've got a good plan, just sign here..." isn't going to cut it.

Tables turned here. If JP had a plan on the JCBA and just started implementing it without the consent of JH, would the UA guys on here want JH to blindly follow?

Welcome to USAir/AWA boys and girls, this is going to be a messy place to work for a long time if we don't figure this out before things get said or done that can't be undone.

If you can get JP under control then maybe the two-way communications and unity will come. "JH's grenade" as you like to refer to it was well known by all sides of both MEC's. How many times has JP been blind-sided by Wendy and JH? Couldn't that be an indications that JP knows and just doesn't want to join because he didn't think of it. I think the UAL MEC and JH have been more than forthcoming to the CAL MEC and JP. It will be USAir/AWA if you want? The UAL pilots will not standby will you guys try to work this to some political advantage.

Wow, paranoia too.

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Hold on ! really ! Was Wendy on vacation during your Transitition agreement negotiations I could never confirm this ? Riding in your jumpseats Ual pilots refused to believe that Wendy would have done that ???

The "JP this"...."JP that"....It's getting as OLD as Fred's 'fake left, go right' play book. Your continued regurgitation of JP lip-service is getting 'tired' at best.....give it a break. In your own previous words, "be part of the solution".

If you took a break from your Pavlovian "JP" torts, you'd come to realize that the CAL-MEC is composed of several Pilots, just as yours is comprised. Personally speaking with 'others' w/in the CAL-MEC, "The Hep's" grenade WAS NOT KNOWN by the CAL-MEC prior to it's unleashing last week. You can blame "JP" all you want as a 'one man band', but TRUTH be told (something your NOT from the above), BOTH sides DID NOT have it "Well KNOWN" as you suggest......As evidence, they are (the ENTIRE CAL-MEC) still waiting to be briefed on the "Hep's" 'game plan' in which to embarking upon prior to signing up for a "READY-FIRE-AIM" mission. Since your a seasoned-vet in this industry, I'm sure you have seen all too well how that type of game plan plays out.

We both know what an "S-Sanwich" this is. It will take BOTH MEC's to get on board to make it work. Is it obtainable??? I think so......BUT to make it happen......the "Kock Games" by BOTH sides best stop before the time-line ticks by.

We all know who JP is and what he is likely to do and that is the only reason his name keeps floating to the top. I wish it was you "SoCALGuy" leading the CAL MEC then it's possible the lies and deceit would end and we could move forward. The only thing I care about JP is he is keeping money out of mine(our) pockets. He bullies and intimidate his LEC's and has absolute control of your MEC doing this. Why does he go to every LEC meeting - Kinda like a child that's being abused, the abuser tries to keep them from talking when he isn't around.

As far as "JH's Grenade" goes, I know everyone had access to this information, but it's possible that JP didn't let it go below his level. Since you seem to know a few guys on the CAL MEC, why don't you get a couple to put it in writing that they didn't have access to the information(maybe JP). That would go a long way in clearing this up. I'm sure the one-man band you refer to does not exist - A clear majority of UAL pilots know whose responsible for delaying the JCBA and it's JP.


Going forward - if you want to stop this, have joint MEC meetings. Then there can be no denying what was told and what was said. In the past JP has rejected this for fear it would mess up his plans for SLI.


To be honest, I don't care about JP - I just don't want him keeping and taking money out of my pocket and he has demonstrated that he's willing to do exactly that.

Zoomie

>>it appears as if JH doing more to hurt negotiations than help.<<

I see it differently, negotiations simply were not progressing, and just perhaps there was nothing left to do but to execute Jay Heppner's plan.

>>Tables turned here. If JP had a plan on the JCBA and just started implementing it without the consent of JH, would the UA guys on here want JH to blindly follow?

I suppose we'll never know, but I would hope Heppner could avoid the vague language that we recently witnessed:

"will support any well thought out and realistic attempt to positively influence a prompt resolution "

>>Welcome to USAir/AWA boys and girls, this is going to be a messy place to work for a long time if we don't figure this out <<

Again, I see it differently than you do. This place already is a messy place to work, with our pay lagging at the bottom of our major carriers, outsourcing our jobs, pensions gone, work rules nearly gone, etc.

In solidarity

Thr negotiations needed a spark that the nmb and the company werent providing. Its a good move. But better have weight in terms of consequential repercussions.
We state the threat with none we will be discredited and be bluffed out.

OU, well put......

I can honestly say, I whole-heartedly agree with you on having "someone" within our Union ranks keeping a "better" JCBA out of our hands (SCOPE, R&I, Scheduling, Rules, Pay, ect....) is completely INEXCUSABLE.

Let's face it (and it's NO SECRET), over the last 10 days "The Hep" has come right out and told "JP" that he doesn't like him, doesn't trust him, and questions where he (JP) stands with Mgt. With that being known, we STILL have to get both MEC's together to get the 'game plan' 100% crystal clear so that both sides lock-step come June.

FACT: In speaking with a CAL-MEC member today, the following is true.....JP wants to be briefed 'alone' by JH regarding the plan.....JH says NO WAY. JH is wanting/insisting that he meets with the ENTIRE CAL-MEC for the briefing, and with that, I 100% agree with "The Hep" as the correct way of doing it. There has been a motion presented by some members of the CAL-MEC to have a "special session" within days to have "The Hep" present/brief his entire "game plan" for the CAL-MEC. This vote/motion's results should be known by this afternoon. I HOPE is passes, and we get to crack'in so pads.

Here's the rub.....You, I, and most everyone knows that BOTH Master-Chairs have an ego that needs to tempered so that WE can get together to make the "meeting of the minds" (JP, JH, and MEC's) run productively so that BOTH sides are in FULL (or compromised) agreement. Stating the obvious, we DON'T have a lot of time, and we both know that this needs to be done "yesterday" in order to make "Hep's" announcement gain full traction/support. To have "The Hep" say 'my way, or the highway' WON'T work.....same as JP saying brief me 'solo', or no cigar. Compromise of plan/path to make this unified is the ONLY way this is gonna work. Without that, any divided stance we make is 'lame' at best. If we CAN'T do this, I would just about throw in the towel.

Through all this, my question is "where has Lee been all this time prior to yesterday"?!?!? Well, I have also heard that Moak has a 'game plan' of his own in which he plans to bring to table within days. Knowing NOTHING about his plan (taking Hep's page, JP's page, or coming up with his own hybrid??), I hope that we take the BEST of ANY, and ALL avenues, and construct something NOW that is battle ready.

Bottom line....In the what I've heard within the last 24 hours, we need to bury ANY/ALL ego's.....and that STARTS at the top with the MEC-Chairs. I'm in agreement with you OU, let's make sure that ANY/ALL "riches" we have coming to us NOT be precluded by those who are willing to check their ego's at the door when it comes time to do business/battle. If not, this ship sails (then sinks) without us & our present opportunity is gone.

I agree with you on most of this post. The one thing we don't need is an outsider(Lee Moak) bringing a plan or a compromise that didn't include both MEC's at the table in formulation. His interest is at the national level and could very well sell-out both or either for the sake of ALPA National. We can't afford him the opportunity to have the UAL/CAL finance his Agenda or the "ALPA National Dream" as he see it.

If we see a plan from Moak that's presented to the press. We'll know his interest and concerns lies with National and not us.

Wow, there you go again, more conspiracies out to get us.

Open your eyes boy and see whats just happened. Your work life just got harder.

Agreed on the "outsider" part.....BUT, I would see Moak's presence as a possible benefit in getting the two MEC-Chair's to the table, stop the game-playing, and get a 'game-plan' in place sooner rather than later (later is something we DON'T have). I'm NOT advocating that Moak come bee-bop'in into the room with a 'game-plan' (most likely with a ALPA-National's slant) in hand as the holy grail in which to work. I would listen (and just that) what he has to say, and let him attempt to spur the two sides to get on a path....and do so quickly.

Let's face it OU, the "My Way, or the Highway" stance is not going to fly for eitherside on the topic. We are going to NEED Group-Unity to stand behind on ANY future/cordinated Release Request, there's NO two-ways about it. All I'm saying is that having a meeting of the minds (Moak there, maybe??), bury the ego's, go to the table to......present 'game plan'.....review-Q&A....revamp, if needed......a viable/solid plan that garners as much Support/Solidarity as possible. Again, if we DON'T have the two "S" just mentioned, it plays right into MGT's hands of gifting them the perfect whip-saw.

To be blunt/honest......I DO have a lot doubt on the Release being given, BUT at this point, I am all for a CORDINATED/UNIFIED request.

Solutions??

With latest from JP there is no doubt that it will be unlikely the UAL MEC will be released. Do you really feel JP is working in the best interest of the CAL pilots or just Jeff/Fred and company. He sure has a way of showing his colors. He wants War between the 2 groups and I think he just launched the first salvo. Hope we don't get hurt for the sake of ONE, JP. How can you let him continue?

Jane you ignorant slut.

Recheck the TPA. The parties are LUAL, LCAL and ALPA. ONE UNION. ONE VOICE. Or maybe that was just a sticker I saw somewhere...

One union, two managements.

Regards. Out

Really!?

Is JP(os) going on vaca in May while all this is going on? Why not cancel it? And who authorized his wife to fly PS with him to Paris for the IFALPA meeting....Hmmm

Reported on another forum that CA and Mrs. Heppner are also attending the IFALPA conference and are travelling Pos Space.