Compared To 2000
 

The chain of events of these negotiations are interesting, comparisons can be made with many different times, and it is true each contract's negotiations are unique. But, I find some interesting comparisons with the 1998-2000 UAL pilot negotiations. I believe the most glaring comparison between contract 2000 and the current JCBA negotiations is how Senior Management made a grave tactical mistake which will cost UAL literally hundreds of millions, if not more, than they would have spent had they come originally to the bargaining table in good faith. In contract 2000 the UAL Management reneged in their contractual promise from the ESOP to negotiate and conclude a new contract before the amendment date. What they chose to do was to risk delaying the contract and pocket the cash flow savings for the time from the amendable date until the signing of a new contract. What they missed was the heart of the pilots and the fact Delta was also due for a a new contract. During the contract 2000 negotiations Delta settled their contract with a new level of wages and benefits which set a new bar for industry leading contract and was totally unexpected by the UAL Management. Everything on the table at the time was blown away by this new standard, set by the Delta pilots, and it cost UAL plenty especially when one considers what UAL could have had just a year previously. Some might even say it led UAL to BK and cost 10s of billions of dollars in the long run. So here we are again today with a new Delta contract (I saw the pay rates) which set the bar nicely and UAL Management (different names same deal) blew it again. When they could have settled for less they now have a new industry standard to pay for. (I saw the 90 seat rates and I would vote yes for Delta's RJ deal.) UAL Management, you blew it!!!!

Sorry for the massive paragraph with no breaks. I did type breaks but the blog didn't pick them up.

UAL completed their contract before Delta. Kind of makes the whole paragraph have no meaning.

Sailingfun

Not true.

You're thinking of the 1999 contract which was ratified in 2001. I am referring to the previous contract amendment when they brought in the 737-800s. Check back at their amendment rates.

"Delta 737-800 pilot contract

Delta pilots approved (by a 60-40 margin)on Oct. 16 a contract addendum on pay
rates for new-generation 737s, allowing them to start service as scheduled."


The point is Delta always leads and UAL blew their opportunities. We're here again.

I'm glad someone has seen the new delta pay rates...could you show them to us delta guys? We haven't seen them yet.

This is your statement.

During the contract 2000 negotiations Delta settled their contract with a new level of wages and benefits which set a new bar for industry leading contract and was totally unexpected by the UAL Management.

Contract 2000 at Delta was signed well after UAL signed their contract. If you are speaking of the LOA on pay for the 737-800 that happened 2 years earlier. It was not a contract. It was one item on pay for new equipment.

I second nwaf16. Since you've seen the C2012 TA payrates, can you show them to the rest of us Delta guys? All of us except those on the negotiation committee and MEC are dying to know.

Sailingfun:

OK you're a technical sort of guy who ants the facts and skip any hyperbole. Here's what I remember:

I was a B727 Cap at UAL and on a L/O when the new 737-800 rates were announced and when I saw them I said to myself (as did a large number of others), "we need this!".

We had begun negotiations and were stalled. Most of us were expecting about a 14% raise and then we saw the new rates and the negotiations for an industry leading contract promised to us changed.

Now can any one tell me how to include a .pdf file to my post?

I will post the rates sent to me for Delta 2013.

I'd be willing to bet that the chart you were sent is the same one that one of our forum regulars with too much time on his hands invented based on a rumored 19% raise.

You might be right, but it still looks very good.

12th year
CAP

747-400, 777-200 - 268.64
787-800/900 - 257.36
767-400 - 253.76
A330-200/300 - 253.76
B767-300ER - 224.86
B767/757 - 224.86
B737-700/800 - 216.75
A320 - 208.06
MD-90 - 204.33
MD-88 - 194.03
EMB-195 - 162.91
EMB-190/CRJ900 - 138.59

If these are the made up numbers and not the "real" ones, they still look good.

Rumors spread fast.

Oh and the 767/757 rates here are about 40% pay raise over the current UAL rates

Double post removed

I do remember the "Delta dot" we were aiming for in C2000.

You got duped. The chart that made it to the UAL forums was made by airline pilot central's own "forgot to bid" on a rumored 19% bump.

Those DAL payrates have been posted on the wall in ORD ops all week and are creating quite the discussion. If they're "unofficial" maybe it should be removed.

UAL guys and called, this man right here is the culprit. :) It's amazing what one can do while on reserve for the MD-88.

So you Delta pilots is it more than 19% or less?

What do you hear?

PS. tighty whitees are out.

Now the gut does look like a typical airline pilot these days.

We are hearing nothing, really. Just the same rumors of various versions of 18-20ish percent spread out over 3 years. They are keeping a tight lid on it until they vote, and it appears that the vote won't happen before Monday.

The only numbers I have heard are low.

You need a better source......

Those 19 percent numbers are at the end of the contract. If the 4-8-3-3 rumors are true. We will be up 19.2 percent on January 1, 2015. Not exactly staggering. Even less when you consider they are going to reduce our profit sharing.

Pay rates you will get, profit sharing maybe not. I'd rather have higher pay and no sharing every time

That's true. My bank account never lies. But, management can play hide the salami with the money. They might go out and buy a decomissioned battle ship or something just to avoid paying you your bonus money. Call it what you will, but true profit sharing, or a bonus program needs to be tightly policed by those that stand the most to gain or lose.

CAL hasn't paid a dividend since before 1968, no real incentive to do so, much less pay bonuses to "co-workers."

My numbers were almost right on. My source turned out to be reliable. You need a better one.

Those 19% by jan 1 numbers sure sound good compared to that turd that floated down the stream today.