Slick,

You would be obvioulsly correct in your assumption if the raises were equal dollar amounts across the board. However, in my experience the raises have been in percentages. Then the guy making a higher rate would have a higher percentage wise "new rate"




So yes, there could be a scenario where a jr FO guy receives more than a sr CAPT guy. Just haven't seen it.

Ok, let's be real here.... Jeff has NO intention of paying RETRO!!!! He has said no and will say no. Bottom line...he doesn't want to pay someone who is already gone (retired/etc)! Back pay....bonus...whatever...that is the reality.

@47dog.... We ALL feel for your pain! I know at CAL we did all we could for furloughs...paid insurance...gave money for holiday gifts...got them BACK! I know some say is still isn't enough, but please stop blaming PILOTS for your pain. We are not your enemy...look much higher up the food chain. If you are not currently flying when the t/a is presented...don't expect a vote... If you haven't been on property since 2009....don't expect retro/back pay.
Resign from ALPA???? Where do you think you are going!? ALPA will still be taking your money and will still be representing you until 8000 more than you finally get tired of it.
Your posts are falling on ears that have different priorities

Your right the whole retro thing is assumed, (but a no vote from me without it) and honestly I was just wondering when the legacy UAL contract was amendable. This thing just drifted into a life of its own.

The Delta pilots have decided that retro is a thing of the past. DALPA sold this last contract to the pilots hard talking about the time value of money. If you get retro, then the time value of money argument is bull. Signing bonuses replaced retro about 10 years ago. Why? Because signing bonuses are literally pennies on the dollar compared to a retro check.

Warning: Math in Public!
 

To come up with a number for myself compared to a Delta pilot, I took Delta's pay rates for the time since amendable date of UAL contract, came up with the difference in rate times hours flown per year, then added each year to come up with a total lost pay then multiplied it by 1.16 to include B plan.

Here are examples(valid up till Jul 1 when Delta got new pay raise):

UA 777 FO 12 yr pay @ 75/hr month
-----------------------------------
2010 paid $12/hr less X 75hr X 12mo = $10800
2011 paid $17/hr less X 75hr X 12mo = $15300
2012 paid $23/hr less X 75hr X 6mo = $10350

Total - 36450 + 16% B fund = $42282

CO 777 FO 12 yr pay @ 75/hr month
-----------------------------------
2009 paid $5/hr less X 75hr X 12mo= $4500
2010 paid $11/hr less X75hr X 12mo = $9900
2011 paid $16/hr less X 75 hr X 12mo= $14400
2012 pad $22/hr less X75hr X 6mo = $9900

Total - $38700 + 12.75% B fund = $43634

Hey dog, what about the furloughed guys who moved on to SWA and FEDEX? Do they get a chunk of that cash too? What about my bud who makes $160K per year with no intention of ever coming back to his new hire salary? Where do we draw the line?

Sled

Looks pretty accurate and I completely spaced the b-fund:eek: Glad you reminded me.

Back in late 89 we negotiated a contract that dumped the "B" scale (I was 3 years into my "B" at UAL) I won't inflame the discussion by pointing out how much I made as a fo 727 back then but is was roughly 1/3 of my A-Scale counterpart. We negotiated a new contract and Wolf Thru us $54mil. ALPA took $4mil off the top to subsidize Retiree medical that had just increased. Leaving approximately $50mil which was roughly 50% retro. Now you might think that we each got .50 on the dollar for our retro but ALPA looked at the distribution bell curve and saw that the "B" Scale pilots we going to collect a "disproportinate amount" of the retro - whatever the heck that meant at the time. Alpa decided to distribute the money on a "point basis" and you got points for things like how long you worked at UAL - Seniority (I think you could get a maximum of 6 or 7 points max for seniority. And points for things like how long you worked under the retro active period. This system essentially SCREWED all the "B" scaler's and rewarded seniority. BUT also rewarded FLEET QUAL Scabs because they were paid $50/75K (F/O or CAP). It was a shameful act and one I will never forget. I will fight to prevent this from happening again!

Personally where the furloughed are currently working and they earning, off the property, has no bearing on retro. Retro is Retro. Now, do you want to get into the "rich aren't paying their fare share of taxes"...bring it on

Not sure where you're going with that. "Retro is Retro"?????? To me that means if you were not here at the contract amendable date, and not here since the amendable date, then you didn't earn retro. Retro = Pay raise X hours worked since amendable date. So, if you ain't on property, you didn't earn Retro. That clear enough?? All of our furloughees were gone before Jan 2010 and none are back yet. RETRO is RETRO

"Rich and taxes"?? wth? put down the bottle and sleep it off.

Sled