I didn't say (or write that).. what I am saying (writing) is that EVERYONE needs to have a number in their head. For 2009, I have a figure that I was shorted every month.. it goes up in 2010, 2011 and 2012. On top of that, I have a % that I'm adding for the Lack of D&R. Plus a "penalty" factor.

I knew when I took the job here that year 1-5 pay sucks. I expected a new CBA by 2010/2011.. which should have had some sort of $ to make up for the years amendable.
I don't expect to get the money back that I had to pay for my own insurance for the first 6 months. But I do expect to get some sort of monetary relief for the times I crew rested in coach, for the few double pumps, for the few Rolled Days.

Again, this is why I say- everyone needs to have a number in your head. We can all shout from the highest tree- give me 100 grand. Problem is, every pilot things he's owed a different amount than the next guy based on his sight picture.

All I want is what I truly believed I'm owed..And if that number is NOT EVEN in the JCBA (because it's going to be determined by ALPA), it's a NO Vote. If the number is there but it's below my min.. it's a NO Vote.

And mind you, this "number" is for the JCBA. There's the whole other issue of equity/stake in the "future" Company. I expect that too~
Hell, my "Union" listed that countless times back in '10, '11 and this year.

Motch

Ok, just explain to me how we do that.. as reality is- the company is going to offer the Union a Figure. Hopefully it's enough to cover the difference in what you should have earned, to what you did earn.

But then again, you now have to figure out a payscale for the years missed.. 09,10,11, and 12.
That might not be hard to do, just interpolate the years between 08 (or last payscale) and the next new one.

But then, you have to go and figure out just what every pilot flew/got paid for and then multiply the difference. Think that's gonna be easy?! And what about the "pain and suffering".. again, everyone's is different.

Should a guy who was out on Mil Leave for two years get the same as his buddies, one number senior and one number junior?
Should a guy who was furloughed from CAL get the same as the guy who was furloughed from UAL?
What about the UAL furlough who is back at CAL versus the guy who didn't take the job offer?
What about all the Furloughees? They don't get to Vote.. do they get any money?

There are dozens of more scenarios.. all of them without a black & white right answer.

At the end of the day, 11000 Pilots will be Voting, and there will be 11000 different views on most of these subjects.
My bare mins on Scope, Work Rules/Scheduling, Retro/Bonus, and Compensation are probably different that yours.. and also different than a 63yr old Capt vs a 53yr old.

Motch

MEC gets TA week of 17 Sep
MEC approves TA by a narrow margin week of 1 Oct
TA becomes JCBA week of 5 Nov

Company gets to do happy talk for the holidays.

Distribution of retro, signing bonus, whatever it is called will be spelled out in the TA. It will not be left to union to distribute.

APC, I hope you're right.
After reading tonight's CAL MEC Blastmail.. not sure what to believe anymore.

The union achieved a lot this week, with two very full days of meetings with management in Washington, D.C., under the supervision of the National Mediation Board (NMB). The meetings were the result of our request for assistance to board member Linda Puchala, to ensure that open items for the TA were quickly resolved. We began the meetings with a list of items generated from those items that were not resolved with the AIP and others that came up as language was created. I think it is important to say that it is expected and normal that as we convert the AIP to a TA, issues will come up that must be resolved. I am pleased that we were able to get through the entire list and that language writing can continue unabated. We also agreed to continue to use this process to solve any disputes that may come up in the future as the language writing process evolves.

It is important that we solve issues as they come up so that the TA can be completed and the ratification process can be started. It is even more important that the language be written properly so as to represent what was negotiated. No one wants the contract to become a grievance mill. To that end, while I have expressed to our negotiators the importance of getting the job done quickly, I have been even more adamant that the job must be done correctly and accurately. I am concerned that, for a slew of reasons ranging from over optimism to misinformation, pilot expectations for the timeline to a TA have been set unrealistically high. There was never a chance that the TA would be completed by Labor Day. The fact is that the TA could be completed in a few more weeks or, and I think this is equally as likely, it could be done sometime in October. The JNC and I will, of course, keep you updated on the progress.

This will be interesting, as a Recall Vote is on the Agenda for Council 170 for the 8th of Oct meeting.
And I hate to say this, but right now.. I am leaning towards recalling my FO Rep.

Motch

It's not that hard. This fictitious $400 million is just that, nobodys really knows. I've heard 91% as much as anything. It would not be hard for the company to compare pay exactly to a new rate and figure out what u are owed. Pay everyone exactly what they are owed by their w2s. Otherwise this whole retro/signing bonus means nothing

I agree the whole signing bonus vs retro is jacked up. I feel everyone should get the same amount, we r all pilots, we all were underpaid by varying industry averages etc. the company and union DO NOT want to waste time calculating retro...my god,it would be very time consuming and take 1000's of man hours to do correctly. Signing bonus is the way to go. ( lets not forget the new scope grievanc that encompasses furloughee complete backpay and reinstitution! Bc a furloughee would have one hell of a back paycheck after 3.5 years of no pay..

I agree with MOST of Skippy's comments. I feel all the captains should get one amount and all the f/o's another set amount. The reason for this is because we have some f/o's that are camped out in the right seat and have no inkling to ever move up due to incompetence, quality of life, or other issues, so they shouldn't be "rewarded" for that. On the other hand, if the train jumps the tracks, the person in charge is the one they're going after. Needs to be a bit of a bump because of that. Otherwise I think divying up the money based on hours, years, seniority, longevity, etc., is going to cause a LOT of pilots to be ticked off. Therefore, one amount for each should suffice.............JMHO.

Good morning all. As a pilot who would like to one day work at a Major, I have been watching this from the sidelines. First I want to say good luck with everything that is going on. You have been fighting for entirely too long and I hope that this JCBA is finished up soon.

The reason I am posting is to discuss what my old pilot group went through at Pinnacle. I am honestly a little surprised that it hasn't already been discussed as we were an ALPA carrier that fairly recently distributed a "signing bonus" from our new contract. Here is the story as I remember it.

After a little over 4 years of negotiations, we reached a TA in late summer of 2009. As part of the TA, we received $10 million for the union to distribute as it saw fit. There was debate over if it was a signing bonus or retro pay, or whatever other name you could come up with for it, but eventually the union decided on how to distribute the money. They came up with a formula using each pilot's W-2 earnings since the amendable date of our old contract. Basically they took the total amount paid to all pilots in that time and figured out what each pilot received as a percentage of the total. That percentage was then applied to the $10 million to figure out your "signing bonus". This left some pilots getting around $1000 and some getting $35,000 plus. Somehow, this was deemed to be a good method and was then voted on by our CA and FO reps from each base. It passed 5-3, with tie breaker being an FO rep who was actually a line Captain. While all of this was going on, we were voting for our TA and many of us saw the distribution method as a slap in the face to the FOs. Well, the bonus was attached to the TA so our only voice was a no vote on the whole package. Our TA then failed and we went another year and half without a new contract.

Luckily they learned a bit on first time around, and came up with a slightly different method for take 2. When the TA was finalized for what would become our JCBA, the union decided that they should honor length of service as well as W-2 earnings. They gave a dollar value to each day that you had served since the old contract had become amendable. Didn't matter if which seat you had been in, it was strictly time of service. They also kept to the old W-2 method and awarded each pilot the amount that was greater between the 2 methods. Since the total needing to be distributed was then more than $10 million, they reduced each pilot's total by the percentage over $10 million. I.E. $10.5 is 5% over 10 so each pilot lost 5%.

Method 2 was much more fair than method 1, but they were still far from great. My big problem with the second go around was that they used the original TA date as the cut off for longevity and earnings. This left some of us with only getting credit for half of the time that we had put in with the company. All told, I got around $3,500 for my 3 years of service and some of the senior guys still $30,000 plus for their 6 years. Not exactly fair, and it still leaves me a bit peeved with ALPA.

What is done is done, but I thought you guys could benefit from hearing the story of how this went down recently at another ALPA carrier. Good luck to you.

Respectfully disagree Skippy, if it is not full retro I won't even read the rest, it will be an easy no vote, but hey thats just me.