Min 5 per day (M5D) question
 

Anyone know the answer to this question?

Question regards M5D.

Document - EFA_Comparison_UAL-CAL_Nov9.pdf; page 71 - box in top right states "JCBA 5 hours per calendar day, not per duty period, and is not average".
Document - United Pilot Tentative Agreement - Nov 2012.pdf; page 87 - states "5-G-2 Schedules shall contain a minimum of five (5) hours pay value, averaged, for each day in a Trip."

One document says "not averaged" and one document says "averaged". What's the discrepancy?

The example that was given to me was a 3day trip with flying of 2:30 for the first day,3:30 the second, and 7:30 the third for a total of 13:30 . By the MSD of 5 min/day is 15:00, not 5 for first and second and 7:30 for third. So the easiest is take the number of days x 5:00 = the minimum excluding rigs.

That's the way I understand it when I read the TA. However, what do they mean by "not average" in the other document?

And in herein lies the gotcha.. as I see it.

They give you 5 of those trips. That's 15 days of work. 67.5 hours of credit. So they still need to give you some more flying.
Add a 2 day trip worth 10 hours.
So- 13 days off.. 77.5 hours of flying for 85 hours of pay. Except the 85 hours of pay are at a rate of Delta -8.5%

Oh, and because the reserve are now all able to do Field Standby (airport reserve) and fly up to 90 hours a month- no need to hire~

Working just as hard as before, for less pay than our fellow pilots.

Actually, during "preferencing" :rolleyes: the build range is 67 hours to 90 hours, so in your example @ 67.5 hours the system COULD stop right there and the pilot would get 70 hours of MPG for the month. But in reality, do we really think the system is going to let a pilot have an extra day or two off despite what the section of the contract says could happen. I don't think so.

Good point.
So, "hypothetically" a guy could actually get a line with 15 days off and 75 hours of pay.
Now the question becomes.. will this actually happen, and if it does, what protections those this pilot have?

I'm reading things about "over block time" not actually paying like it does here at CAL.

Got another tidbit from a friend-
20-N-1-b On the A380, B747, B777, B787, A330 and A350 fleets, for each Trip the first lost day off shall not be subject to restoration; however, the second and any subsequent lost day or days off shall be subject to restoration.

Huh?!

Under LOA 26 - Implementation

Anyone want to take a guess at this?!

31. 5-G-2 : Day Rig (5 per Day) Pay Only
Implemented with the third full Bid Period after effective date (*interim measure)

63. 5 : Rigs
Day Rig (5 per Day) implemented with the ninth full Bid Period after effective date

5-G-2 Schedules shall contain a minimum of five (5) hours pay value, averaged, for each day in a Trip. This provision does not apply to publicity and courtesy flights. If a Pilot was assigned or reassigned to be released from a Trip before the start of a day, and if in the Actual Operation he is released after the start of that day but before 0400, that day shall not be included when calculating the pay value in this Section 5-G-2.

oh, and what does "averaged" mean?!

And I like the 0400 (not)... so you get back at 0359.. no pay for you!

I get that you are a BIG NO on the contract. But it's ironic that there are accusations being flung at the MEC for a "hard sell" by the same people that are doing a HARDER sell (in the other direction) on this forum.

At LEAST call a spade a spade. As the proud owner of 2 15 hour 4 days and 1 10 hour 3 day next month, 5 hours a day is a HUGE get. I don't think anyone else in the industry has it. If the contract were in place right now, I'd be getting an extra 15 hours of pay for the same line I'm flying.

The 0400 thing simply says that if you are arrive after midnight but before 0400, then you aren't going to get an extra day's 5 hours. You will still get paid for the trip. We have a similar concept now at UAL if you arrive before 1am. You may hate the rest of the TA, but you lose credibility when you turn your nose up at 5 hours a day.

What will happen is the company will miraculously stop building those crappy trips that they say they can't avoid right now. That will mean more efficient trips and more time off.

Oh, and if the 90 hours field standby for reserves sounds so great, BID RESERVE!! I for one think that's a win as well for the poor reserve guys that can NEVER break 70 hours. Some of my FO's at UAL have been on reserve for 10 years. It would be nice for them to at least have the option of making some extra money from time to time.

This was covered in CrewsNews AND video. Averaged means 1 day trip = 5 hrs min pay. 2 = 10, 3 = 15 and 4 = 20. 5 hrs of pay per calander day. The 0400 you just quoted is as it reads. If scheduled to be back by 2400 on last day but your late or reassigned, then an EXTRA 5 hours is not paid unless arriving after 0400.

This is huge for West coast HI flying. Those guys fly 12 hour 3 days to HI resulting in 72 hr 12 day off lines. Those will now be 15 hour 3 days resulting in 90 hr lines with 18 hrs being soft time!

Sled

As a Proud Owner of a 2 day last month that paid 2:55 and had a 29 hr sit in PIT, I totally agree that 5 hrs pay per day is a plus. I wanted a little more, but 5 was my min on this.

My only concerns is in the pairing that someone posted earlier.. and how PBS is going to build schedules.

As far as Reserve is concerned.. believe it or not, but I do bid reserve every now and then. Live local, like the break in my month and am able to do some mil stuff without killing myself when I get my usual 6 crossings, 12 days off a month.

I don't like the idea of Field Standby. Mind you, as a 756 guy flying mostly International (though, since the merger we [EWR 756] are doing more longer domestic and Hawaii stuff), I don't think (least I hope not!) that 756 reserves are gonna get a lot of Field Standby.

But here is my concern.
IF we do order a CS300.. or EMB 190/195 and start running it like a quasi Regional Operation, I fear alot of Field Standby for those guys.
I'm told that FS is something you guys have in your contract.. but not really used (?). At CAL, we don't have it and therefor I worry about it.

As far as the 0400 thing is concerned, I'll have to recheck my CBA. Though our's was 0200 but it might also be 0400. Hopefully a CAL guy can comment.

We got to keep talking about the Good, Bad and Ugly of this thing. Doesn't matter if we're CAL, UAL, Narrow body or Wide body, Senior or Junior..
If this thing passes, we are going to be living with it for the next 7 years. And when the next big downswing happens, what and where will the new management come looking to cut and take away.

This thing has got to be Leading Edge and Solid NOW.

Yeah, I'm a NO Voter~

Motch

PS> I'm glad to hear that you would be getting an extra 15 hours of pay if this was our JCBA right now.
But from my end, I would be getting an extra $800 a month and not sure yet how much extra's I'd be paying out.
Not to mention, I still haven't been able to figure out what my "signing bonus" is!