Reserve work rules
 

I keep reading in multiple posts about how the JCBA reserve work rules are the same as CAL's current rules. I've read the JCBA and to me it doesn't look anything like CAL's with the exception that there is on movable day in each bid period. What am I missing here?

Does CAL have unpaid Field Standbys or the requirement to check-in after your last leg for more flying or no limit on Short Calls, or the ability for CMS to ignore FIFO?

I'm not attacking you but these are just a very few of the reasons to vote "NO".

1. Unpaid field standby: Yes, currently in the CAL contract. Seldom, if ever, used. I understand that the new contract pays 4.03.

2. Check in after last leg: Yes, you can simply log into CCS and see if there is an assignment. If not, you're free to go.

3. CMS to ignore FIFO: CAL doesn't use FIFO, assignment is at Crew Scheduling discretion.

Isn't the 4:03 paid for each reserve day, not just field standby? I don't think there is a premium paid for having to drive to and sit at the airport. Under the new system as I read it, you can't just check your schedule, you have to call. What happens when nobody answers as is fairly common now? You can't go home? The people that wrote this haven't sat CAL reserve for a long time.

Could you please tell us where in the CAL contract it states that we have field standy? I even called crew scheduling and they were unaware of this.

Just to clearify there is not a requirment to call CAL crew scheduling after a pilot completes a trip/pairing. Kind of foolish if you do because you have now become a crew tracker. If they forget to call you, use a crew tracker (BTW gate agents are not crew trackers) or put in on your schedule after 15 min domestic/30 min international that is their problem.

One of the problems we have had concerning scheduling is that they are suppose to honor seniority. Sometimes they don't and that is because the have an out in sect 1 it what is called "retained managment rights". Glad to see that gone in this TA. However, IMO there are so many other reasons to vote no.

One question for the LUAL folks-- Is there any additional pay for special qualification airports (ie TGU, BOG,UIO,EGE, GUA, HNL)?

Under the TA, you can be assigned two (2) Field Standby's before they have to pay you add pay.
Anyone wanna bet that every time there's a cloud in the sky, a couple of poor saps will get assigned FS. But also wanna bet that the company keeps good track of it some no one gets more than 2.. so they don't have to pay!

Also, just because you're doing FS and a trip comes avail doesn't mean you'll get it. It can be given to a Short Call.

Nice~

Amen to that

Straight from Contract '02:


O. Should operations require, a Reserve Pilot may be used for “Airport Standby” duty.
1. The Duty Period as an Airport Standby is limited to five (5) hours. An assigned Trip Pairing must have a scheduled departure within that period. If no scheduled departure is assigned within the five (5) hour period, the pilot must be released for at least the length of a Base Rest Period.
2. The five (5) hour Duty Period for a pilot on Airport Standby begins at Report Time.

CAL has had this since C'02. The reason that most people aren't aware of it is because it is rarely used. It is not the company's advantage to use it unless the airline is overstaffed. Why limit your short reserves to only 5 hours?

Wow! I missed that one.

Under the current agreement they don't have to pay you at all, and can use you for airport alert as much as they want.

My point with the 4:03 is that you are being paid. Premium kicks in after two assignments.

Here's the language concerning checking your schedule at the end of assignment:

20-K-1-d After blocking in at the termination of a Trip, a Reserve must check to see if he
has been given an assignment or reassignment in accordance with Section 20-I-6-h
(Reserve Additional Flying Provisions).

Logging in to CCS will no doubt suffice. In fact, I'd be willing to be that simply checking your phone for messages would suffice, although that's something to run by the Union first.


After truly studying this new reserve system, I think it's pretty good (from a CAL perspective). No more rolling of days off, everyone starts as long call, the ability to "own" your trip, and strict guidelines for reassignments into days off.

The big concern that everyone seems to be Field Standby. Again, it's hardly ever used because it's typically not to the company's advantage. At CAlEX, we used it all the time after 9/11 because we were severely overstaffed. It sucked ( I did a lot of it ) but it was better than the alternative of more furloughs and downgrades. You can almost think of it as a barometer for staffing.

Always nice to see a "new" poster join the fray. 3 posts so far.. congrats!

Motch

PS> never meet a CAL Pilot who has done numerous Airport Alerts. Gut says, if this POS TA Passes, that won't be the case~

Name calling, and speculation that qualifies as useful dialogue? So you frequent the forum because you have personal anger and need a place to vent? Or you're here to persuade others with logic?

5-E-6-a RDO (Regular Day Off): a reserve day off, found only in a Global Reserve’s schedule, that may be disrupted for the assignment of a Global Trip.





5-E-6-c FDO (Flexible Day Off): a reserve day off that, for a Basic or Global Reserve, may be disrupted for the assignment of a Basic Trip and, for a Global Reserve, may be disrupted for the assignment of a Global Trip. Without the concurrence of the Pilot and the Company, an FDO may only be placed on the first day of a period of days off and may not be placed after a period of six (6) days of reserve availability or on a golden day off as defined in Section 5- E-9.





5-E-7-d For Global Reserves available for the full Bid Period, schedules shall be constructed with the following:
5-E-7-d-(1) one period of six (6) consecutive HDOs; and




So.. I just went from 8 IMM's (Immoveable Days Off) to 6 HDO's.

Are we reading the same TA?

Motch

Motch,

Those are "reassignable days" not movable days (as in our current contract) There is a huge difference.

Currently in C'02, Crew Scheduling can move any of your "off" days (that haven't been declared "immovable", for any reason they see fit. They do not even have to have a trip for you to fly, they can simply tell you that your reserve day has been moved. As you well know, they do it often.

The TA has "reassignable days." A pilot on reserve can be "reassigned into these days, but it must be for an actual trip and Scheduling must have exhausted all long call reserves. The trip must also begin on a scheduled reserve day (not an off day). Also, with the exception of the one CDO day per month, these reassignments can only be for global trips.

Another gain is that if you volunteer for a short call line, you only have on "reassignable day" for the month. All of the rest are HDO.

Since everyone wants to compare this to DAL. Take a look at "X" days and how their "reassignment" process works. This TA is better (in my opinion).

Don't let aggressive pickup lull you into thinking this is a good system. Crew sked will manipulate your ability to pick up through the use of the silos and assigning short calls. In the old UA system, you could pick up 24/48 hours out domestic/international and you still weren't able to pick up much on your first few days on reserve. This 11:00 the day prior pickup will just give the company all morning the day prior to grab you for something else. Also, no longer 13 hours for conversion to short call. Very concessionary versus current UA.

That's why the guys are saying it looks like CAL's reserve system.

UAL currently pays 5.0 for a four hour field standby. The JCBA TA pays nothing. Used all the time! That's bothersome.

Check in after last leg currently not required under the UAL System. They need to catch you before you get off the plane. No requirement for checkin.

FIFO is honored at UAL. They have a trick of two to get around it but there has been numerous grievances awarded where the crew desk ignored FIFO and gave assignements over the holidays that should have gone to someone else by FIFO. That's bothersome as well.

Thanks for the info!

mishap,

You are correct. This JCBA TA Reserve system might look better to the CAL guys but it is appreciably worse than the UAL System which is reason enough for me to vote "NO."

There is no pay for Field Standby for the first two. After that they only adjust your Min Res guarantee up by one hour. If you break guarantee they pay nothing.

At UAL it pays 5.0 and reduces your availability by 5.0.

Is that add pay or credit to line value? The reason I ask is because if it's part of your line value then this whole discussion comes back to staffing. If United is staffed high enough that they are even entertaining assigning field standby then it stands to logic that it is highly unlikely that anyone will be breaking guarantee that month. Hence, the 5 hours of pay is meaningless.

It's Credit value. It's far from meaningless. For the guys that fly and break guarantee (and there are a lot of them) it goes into their pocket. For the guys that try and dodge and stay home, it reduces the Copmany's availability to assign more trips to them.

True, however if the company were ever to even assign Field Standby it would be during a month that they were fat on staffing. In my experience, when there are lots of reserves, it is rare to make above guarantee. In fact, in your scenario, UAL could give a reserve 8 FB's for 40 hours credit, assign another 30 hours of flying, and the reserve still wouldn't break guarantee.

field standby is the most horrible thing on planet earth for a reserve, once this cat is let out of the bag you will never never never get rid of it.

No..
Name calling would be me saying, You Joe Peck.. are an *******. Or an Idiot, or a combination of both.
That is "name calling".

I merely stated that a "new"poster was defending the TA. Always interesting when people who have never posted come on here and all of a sudden get involved in the discussion.

Guess you can't read or understand English. Then again, doesn't surprise me as you don't seem to be able to comprehend the Negatives and give backs in this TA>

Motch

^ And to the mods.. I am merely "pointing out" an example of "Name calling"...
Figured I would get this in, before you ban me for a few days~

Motch

been out of the bag here at UAL at least since I was hired 15 years ago. I have been on RSV for the last 6 years, been assigned a handful of them. 4 hr sit at the airport, then you go home. flight must depart within 5 hrs of your start time. Easy. AND I rarely have been used.

Sled

Reserve sucks. At all four of my previous airlines reserve sucked. These are by far the best rules I've ever read.

Cat has also been out of the bag at CAL for over ten years. I never saw it while I was sitting reserve. In fact, I didn't even know it was in C02 until I started comparing contracts.

Again, it's really not of value to the company unless they overstaff. I would much rather another Captain's slot be available to me that requires me to sit a bit of Field Standby than for it not be available. And I would much prefer that a junior FO spot be available that means i have to sit Field Standby than find myself furloughed while the Company stretches reserves to the limit.

A bit dramatic wouldn't you say...^^^^ Field standby isn't a big deal.

Been on reserve (ORD 757/767 F/O) for 5 years now. At sUA field standby assignments are usually only made when there is a major weather event.

if it is never used then of course not but my friend works at a regional (pinnacle) it is used and it is absolutely horrible, I guess you guys have it but you are assured it will never be used as such

The way I read it, the company may build an entire line of FSB's and that they are voluntary. IF that is the case and only those who want them get them, fine. Personally, I hate FSB and want no part of it.


<<5-H-3 The Company may award lines consisting of Field Standby assignments, and the following provisions shall apply:

5-H-3-a The number of Field Standby lines, if any, shall be determined by the Company but may not exceed three (3) for each Category.

5-H-3-b Awards to standby lines shall be voluntary. Reserves available for the full Bid Period shall have priority, by seniority, for standby lines. Volunteer Reserves with absences and activities shall be awarded standby reserve lines for the portion of the Bid Period for which they are available.

Maybe not for you ... but how about everyone else on the property that drives to the airport to sit at the Company's whim. For the ones that have to pay $40 round trip in tolls for no pay. For the ones that have to fight rush hour traffic to sit at the aiport at the Company's whim.

I've had at least forty short calls at the field and was only used once to ferry and airplane to a Mx station that could have been done by a normal reserve. He speaketh the truth! Field standby is the most horrible thing on planet earth for a reserve ... especially for those that need to cover three airports!

DL doesnt have a field standby option on rsv. That would be absolutely awful... Ive done it at a previous airline and wouldnt wish it on anyone.

See section 23 -B of dal pilot contract.

That's shuttle standby at the marine air terminal. Mainline does not fly the shuttle anymore. On top of that, there wasnt a spare airplane kept for the standby for many years, which they had to have for the standby crew. It's been at least 7 years since that was utilized.... maybe more.

They only have two hours for all the bases in the same time zone to jack with your tip you aggressively picked up. I think you are giving the crew desk a lot more credit than they are capable of.

Does the current UAL book prevent FSB or short calls when open trips, I don’t remember?

20-I-6-d

start time shall be provisionally assigned from 1300 to 1459 on the day prior; the Company
may modify such provisional assignments during this time. At 1500 all such assignments
shall become firm and a Reserve must check his schedule after 1500 to see if he has
received an assignment. If an insufficient number of Reserves are available to cover all
such assignments, a Reserve who could be assigned an Open Trip shall not be given a
Short-Call or Field Standby assignment. If any Trips shall remain uncovered, the Company
shall determine which Trips shall remain uncovered.

Does LUAL have special qual airport like BOG,UIO,TGU ect? I can't see how the new reserve scheduling of FIFO will work in all cases due to the fact most pilots that sit reserve do not have special quals. This has sucked a LCAL to have any special airport quals. Pilots that have these quals get stuck with certain phone alert times and fly when more junior pilots are off.