Notices

Clear scope breakdown

Old 11-26-2012, 04:07 PM
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Default Clear scope breakdown

Looking to see if some one can give some clear/straightforward numbers pertaining to current Scope at L-UAL and L-CAL vs. the TA scope allowances.

Appreciate special attention to the 70'sh seat market!

Just curious what this could mean for future Legacy hiring and the coming landscape of the industry.

I know there are some other threads on this, but I think a lot of us on the outside looking in with anticipation could really benefit from some clearly presented data.

Thanks to whoever chooses to break it down!
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:38 AM
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Without the company doing ANYTHING.. we give the company the approval to-
1) Have 255 70/76 seat Aircaft. (An increase of roughly 87 airframes. Of which, ALL {of the 87} can be 90 seaters configured to 76 seats with a First Class, some flying Hub to Hub, the rest to other destinations, 20% to destinations beyond 900nm)
1-C-1-a-(2)-(c) Up to a total of 255 76-Seat Aircraft plus 70-Seat Aircraft (“76/70- Seat Aircraft”), of which up to 130 may be 76-Seat Aircraft, and then, on or after January 1, 2016, up to 153 76-Seat Aircraft.
1-C-1-d Hubs
In any Rolling Twelve-Month Period, the number of block hours of United Express Flying operated by United Express Carriers as a group non-stop between current or future Company Hubs may not exceed five percent (5%) of all United Express Flying as a percentage of the total block hours of United Express Flying. A pair of Flights by a United Express Carrier operated under a single flight number in which one Flight is scheduled to originate at a Company Hub and the second Flight is scheduled to terminate at a second Company Hub shall be included within the five percent (5%) limitation, unless the Company imposes an IATA Standard Schedules Information Manual Type “A” Traffic Restriction Code on the through itinerary that shall suppress the display of such itinerary.

1-C-1-b At least eighty percent (80%) of all United Express Flights each month shall be under 900 statute miles.

2) Aprrox 488 50 seat Aircraft. (An increase of roughly 106 airframes)
1-C-1-a-(2)-(b) 50-Seat Aircraft, provided that such aircraft do not number more than ninety percent (90%) of the number of single aisle aircraft in the Company Fleet; and

3) Unlimited 37 seat TurboProps.
1-C-1-a-(2)-(a) 37-Seat Turboprop Aircraft; and

4) Fly those 50-76 seat Aircraft up to 120% of our TOTAL Single Aisle Aircraft Hours (Not Domestic Hours.. ALL Hours).
1-C-1-f-(1) In any Rolling Twelve-Month Period ending the first full calendar month following date of signing of this Agreement or later, the Company shall not Schedule or permit the Scheduling of aircraft block hours of United Express Flying (excluding block hours operated by 37-Seat Turboprop Aircraft) exceeding the maximum percentage of Scheduled aircraft block hours of Company Flying on single-aisle Company Aircraft (“Max. % of UAXBH to SBH”) set forth in the following chart. Cells 1 to 8 state the number of 76-Seat Aircraft operated in United Express Flying (cells 2 through 8 show an increase in the number of such 76-Seat Aircraft if added under Section 1-C-1-g). Cells 9 through 16 state the Max. % of UAXBH to SBH that the Company must maintain based on the number of 76-Seat Aircraft in cells 1 through 8. The measurement for the twelve (12) months in any Rolling Twelve-Month Period shall be made on a weighted basis by the number of 76-Seat Aircraft in United Express Flying in each month.
# of 76-Seat Aircraft Operated UAX/ Max. % of UAXBH to SBH
1. Zero to 153 / 120%


5) Fly those 37 seat TurboProps to unlimited hours.
See above in Red
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:58 AM
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What is the rj cap if we DON'T go past 153 70/76 seaters?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:14 AM
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I always crack up at the "Calculus" breakdown on the scope. Why do you care. ANY RJ'S FLYING YOUR ROUTES are there to whipsaw and eventually take your job!
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:25 PM
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The opposite of complex is simple but it may be hard. The opposite of hard is easy but it may not be simple.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:53 PM
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Wink 90 seaters

I am not sure Ill say this correctly, but if I read the scope on 90 seaters they can not be over a maximum certificated weight of 86000 lbs. All of the 90 seaters I saw all weigh significantly more than 86k. I don't believe the 90 seaters can be used. I was told that was one of the sticking points during the contractual writing. The company claimed it was a 96 k lbs. weight limit, the union claimed 86 k and the mediator agreed with the union. R/..... Sluggo
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:55 PM
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Thanks for laying out!


So the biggest issue in terms of industry landscape is a total FAIL. Great...


Looks like I'm stuck at the regional another 10 years.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by El Gwopo View Post
What is the rj cap if we DON'T go past 153 70/76 seaters?
255- 70+76 seaters (including Qs) and 120% of narrow body block hours. If you believe the 50 seater is dead, then 255 could eventually be the max number of UAX aircraft in the fleet. A 54% reduction from today.

Last edited by jsled; 11-27-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by horrido27 View Post
Without the company doing ANYTHING.. we give the company the approval to-
1) Have 255 70/76 seat Aircaft. (An increase of roughly 87 airframes. Of which, ALL {of the 87} can be 90 seaters configured to 76 seats with a First Class, some flying Hub to Hub, the rest to other destinations, 20% to destinations beyond 900nm)
1-C-1-a-(2)-(c) Up to a total of 255 76-Seat Aircraft plus 70-Seat Aircraft (“76/70- Seat Aircraft”), of which up to 130 may be 76-Seat Aircraft, and then, on or after January 1, 2016, up to 153 76-Seat Aircraft.
1-C-1-d Hubs
In any Rolling Twelve-Month Period, the number of block hours of United Express Flying operated by United Express Carriers as a group non-stop between current or future Company Hubs may not exceed five percent (5%) of all United Express Flying as a percentage of the total block hours of United Express Flying. A pair of Flights by a United Express Carrier operated under a single flight number in which one Flight is scheduled to originate at a Company Hub and the second Flight is scheduled to terminate at a second Company Hub shall be included within the five percent (5%) limitation, unless the Company imposes an IATA Standard Schedules Information Manual Type “A” Traffic Restriction Code on the through itinerary that shall suppress the display of such itinerary.

1-C-1-b At least eighty percent (80%) of all United Express Flights each month shall be under 900 statute miles.

2) Aprrox 488 50 seat Aircraft. (An increase of roughly 106 airframes)
1-C-1-a-(2)-(b) 50-Seat Aircraft, provided that such aircraft do not number more than ninety percent (90%) of the number of single aisle aircraft in the Company Fleet; and

3) Unlimited 37 seat TurboProps.
1-C-1-a-(2)-(a) 37-Seat Turboprop Aircraft; and

4) Fly those 50-76 seat Aircraft up to 120% of our TOTAL Single Aisle Aircraft Hours (Not Domestic Hours.. ALL Hours).
1-C-1-f-(1) In any Rolling Twelve-Month Period ending the first full calendar month following date of signing of this Agreement or later, the Company shall not Schedule or permit the Scheduling of aircraft block hours of United Express Flying (excluding block hours operated by 37-Seat Turboprop Aircraft) exceeding the maximum percentage of Scheduled aircraft block hours of Company Flying on single-aisle Company Aircraft (“Max. % of UAXBH to SBH”) set forth in the following chart. Cells 1 to 8 state the number of 76-Seat Aircraft operated in United Express Flying (cells 2 through 8 show an increase in the number of such 76-Seat Aircraft if added under Section 1-C-1-g). Cells 9 through 16 state the Max. % of UAXBH to SBH that the Company must maintain based on the number of 76-Seat Aircraft in cells 1 through 8. The measurement for the twelve (12) months in any Rolling Twelve-Month Period shall be made on a weighted basis by the number of 76-Seat Aircraft in United Express Flying in each month.
# of 76-Seat Aircraft Operated UAX/ Max. % of UAXBH to SBH
1. Zero to 153 / 120%


5) Fly those 37 seat TurboProps to unlimited hours.
See above in Red
Wow. I feel like I keep repeating myself. We are at 112% of narrow body block hours now, so just like at DAL, the 50 seaters will be hitting the desert to make room under the 120% cap for the 76 seaters.
Current scope allows UAX to fly 100% of Total Mainline Block hours (747s,777s, 767s,all narrow bodies) so this scope curtails the potential growth of UAX significantly compared to current book.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:47 PM
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Wow.. how dense can you be?!
First of all, where are you getting this "112%" number. My Rep told me we hover between 114 to 118% percent?!
Problem is, I don't know what that includes and means. Does it include Total (UAL & CAL Single Aisle Flying vs RJ's), Partial (one side or the other), 37 seat turbo props? United's mainline to RJ Ratio? what?!

No matter how you slice it. This TA is concessionary. It allows for 90 seaters configured to 76 seaters. Currently there are none.
It allows for a carve out of 37 seaters.
It allows for an unknown amount of 50 to 66 seaters.

You say it curtails the potential growth of UAX significantly compared to current book. Who's book?
Cause for the Continental Pilot Group, this Scope Section with regards to RJ Flying is Concessionary.
And I'm not even going into the LOA that allows USAir to get a large share of Code Share Flying.

You're Voting YES.. keep trying to justify it. If this POS TA Passes, we'll see what you have to say in 2014, 2015 and 2016 with regards to Scope.

Then again, my gut feeling is you don't give a ****~

Motch
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