Duplicate Fleet/Base, ISL, Incentive, & Tempo
 

I've got some questions and am looking for L-UAL and L-CAL guys' opinions.

1. Which bases/domiciles have duplicate fleets? I looked on Skynet, but it only shows me the UAL side. I know we have UAL and CAL 757/767 in IAH. I suspect similar in LAX, possibly JFK/IAD. I just can't remember all the changes from earlier this year. The point is, I know UAL put some bases in CAL territory, and CAL put some in UAL territory, and some are duplicates.

I would expect that after ISL completion, those bases/domiciles would be merged.

2. As I understand it, the ISL is done solely through the Merger Committees, and if it reaches an impasse, it goes to the three arbitrators.

Does the Company have any input? From what I understand, I think no.

3. The company loses flexibility by having two different lists of crews in a domicile. For example, if UAL IAH 757s ran out of Reserves, but the CAL side still had some, without an ISL, they are stuck. A single list gives them more options.

As such, do you think the Company would offer incentives to complete the list sooner rather than later? Since it saves them money, would they offer us money?

So, the questions are:

A. Will the company merge duplicate fleets in the same base, and will it maintain status-quo, or lead to displacements?

B. Does the Company have any input?

C. Would they offer cash to settle quickly?

A. Yes, all the bases will be merged but not until after ISL. For now it's status quo with split staffing in the bases where both divisions operate the same equipment.

B. In regard to the actual ISL, zero.

C. Absolutely. In fact, the exact amount is $150M. This is the portion of the 'signing bonus/retro' which is being withheld by the company until ISL is complete to incentivize the pilots to complete the ISL quickly.

(Hint: all of this is laid out in the ALPA Merger Policy, the TPA, and the new contract.)

It may me quite a while after sli before bases are merged. In order to merge some bases like 756 ny, every l-Ual pilot would have to be trained on the 76-400.

Plus... won't they also have to get lots of differences training for all the digital gizmos, GPS systems and comparatively modern avionics for the 757s too?

Modern avionics in a 757? ;)

CAL system bid coming out in a couple of weeks with 737 flying rumored to be going to all LUAL bases, some of it significantly larger, like ORD. In addition, according to IAH CPO update this week, lots more Airbus flying moving into LCAL domiciles too. So, the company is not really waiting until ISL to redistribute flying how they see fit, a lot of the changes are happening beginning in March. I don't think this will lead to displacements as the rumor in the training department is about 400 vacancies on this final LCAL system bid. If LUAL furloughees come on board now, they can probably hold any 737 base quickly after training, or wait until ISL and go to Airbus at any of the LUAL or LCAL bases this time next year at the latest. We can discuss more when I get back to squadron in late Jan.

TMAC

TMAC...how is the retraining going? It's FLAPWHEL...

If the bid rumor is true it amazes me how management doesn't seem to understand there will probably be fences and grandfather rights within bases and equipment.

The ISL doesn't mean just where one is placed on the list. Much more involved than that.

Our JCBA does not provide for any "fences" nor "grand father rights".

I think you're dreaming if you think that's going to come out of the SLI process. Those are protections won in contract negotiations because they co$t money. That ship has already sailed.

So unless you think the company will reengage with some side letters out of the goodness of their hearts, I'd be prepping for the idea that when the list is done, it will have no more protections than can be specifically identified in the contract language right now.

When the ISL is done and cross bidding starts it will be a bit of chaos for the company. It is probably better to do it all at once and get it over with. If they do it over a couple of years they will probably double the training requirements, if not more than double.

Rip it off all at once and scream a little bit, and move on.

IMHO

Don't know how you can extract this from what was a very generic chief pilot update, pie charts and all. Unless you're trying to stir things up!

While the bid will surely have vacancies - they have to staff the airline for the new contract after all - I doubt they'll be of the magnitude you describe!

As has already been said, no fences; they would have been in the CBA. The rumor that I heard was the U-ALPA wanted to fence the 400 (747), and C-ALPA said OK so long as we also fence the 787. The decision was no fences.

Also, no flush bid. With 50 new hires and 30 retirements each month we will have many opportunities to bid around. A flush bid would be extremely expensive for the company and very bad for the pilots as well. OK, maybe not bad for all pilots, but for the displaced few/many it could be devastating in terms of QOL.

Absolutely no fences. I can't see why anyone would want these. We are one company now. Accept that the ISL will be as fair as possible for as many people as possible.

Jackson, err...iahflyr I mean... We would want fences to protect our respective career expectations and ease into the shockingly cold pool water of the new company. ALPA however threw that all away for us with the "JCBA first" concept. You and your fellow managers are just laughing your butts off at the pilots bearing the costs of this aren't you?

The 787 arrived well after the merger. They are all of our aircraft. Just because management only put them out there on the CAL side doesn't mean anything. We as a company have 50 on order, 25 for each. They weren't on property at merger date and the 747s were.

They were ordered on the CAL side well before the merger. Just 'cos Boeing screwed the pooch doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered CAL planes. And, if memory serves, the United order was for delivery MUCH later! By which time the 747's will likely be gone!

What were the expected delivery dates for the 25 sUAL 787's?
sCAL's were well over 2 years ago and planned well before the merger was announced. Spare me the virtual merger line please, had Boeing not screwed up that entire program the 787 would have been on property prior to the merger.

"Our JCBA does not provide for any "fences" nor "grand father rights"."

First you basically don't understand the process of integration because it has nothing (or at least little) to do with the Contract. The Contract covers how we get paid, work and benefits while the integration is an agreement about how the two pilot groups will be merged. The ISL process is a legal and binding agreement not just between the two pilots groups but also the airline.

UCH is bound by the ISL and its contents as much as they are bound by the Contract. As I said one address the pay and such while the second is an agreement on the process of merge. If the arbitrator assigns protections like fences, freezes and base staffing then UCH is bound by that agreement. Their only recourse is to grieve the ISL agreement through the court process in the same manner we pilots have available to us.

You also have to understand the fences, freezes and base restrictions are not cost negative to UCH since the staffing will cost the same regardless of which pilot group is effected by it.

Yes there most likely will be restrictions beyond an integration of seniority.

Oh and I do have experience in negotiating a merged list of two pilot groups, so I know from where I speak.

PS. You guys have to stop arguing about who bought what? It is in the twp Committees and Arbitrator's hands.

In the end we will get to fly an airplane and get paid for it.

So I looked it up.

Continental Airlines ordered the first batch of 787's in 2004.

Boeing: Boeing and Continental Announce Deal for More 787s, Including the 787-9 Launch Order for the Americas



SEATTLE, March 12, 2007 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] and Continental Airlines today announced an order for five 787-9 Dreamliners. This order, combined with the Houston-based airline's earlier announced orders, brings Continental's total firm 787 order to 25 aircraft. The airline also has contracted to convert 12 previously ordered 787-8 jetliners to the larger 787-9s.
Continental was the first airline in the Americas to order the 787 Dreamliner, placing its initial order for 10 airplanes in 2004. With today's announcement, Continental also becomes the first customer in the Americas to order the 787-9. The 787-9 (250-290 passengers) is a slightly larger version of the 787-8 (210 to 250 passengers) with increased seating and range capability (approximately 8,500 nmi versus 8,200 nmi).
"We recognized the benefits of the 787 early, and today's order further demonstrates our confidence in Boeing and the 787 Dreamliner," said Continental's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Larry Kellner. The 787-9 is a welcome addition to the 787 family. With its increased size and range we will have the ability to serve more cities with the lowest possible cost per seat."
"The 787 Dreamliner will enhance Continental's fleet with both its unmatched fuel efficiency and its flexibility for both regional and long-haul operations," said Ray Conner, Boeing Commercial Airplanes vice president of Sales, the Americas. "Passengers will choose to fly the 787 for its advanced interior environment including higher humidity, larger windows and lower cabin altitude."

but...but...

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Just don't forget this time it's different because of the JCBA first requirement.

And they are replacing 767s so not going to matter anyway.