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Old 03-04-2013, 09:37 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux View Post
Winning the lottery is just getting hired, who really cares about initial seniority?
It seems small but it can be a big deal. During CAL furloughs 10 years ago the line looked like it was going to be drawn right through my class. 10 furloughed, the new bottom 10 on the entire list to Guam, the "top" 10 of the class at a CONUS hub somewhere. They ended up drawing the line between my class and the class junior to us so 10 went to Guam and 20 stayed CONUS. We were all later furloughed anyway. How we were racked and stacked within that class years before became important. During the recalls, same deal. It could make the difference between getting recalled, going to Guam, and commuting or not. I missed not commuting by a single number.

Last edited by APC225; 03-04-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:56 AM
  #32  
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Great point, and could be a big deal.
BUT, it's not even worth worrying about until an offer of employment is given.
Guys that are getting themselves wrapped up over whether seniority within a class is determined by age, reverse social security number, height or whatever are needlessly thinking about things that don't matter, until at least someone gets a class date.
Still, I guess it fills the time during the day to speculate.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux View Post
Winning the lottery is just getting hired, who really cares about initial seniority?
.....Says he (she) who has never been at the "8Ball" on a furlough list??

The difference in "single number" can separate you from holding onto the dead bottom-rung, versus sitting on the street for days/months/years awaiting a recall if you are unfortunate enough to feel the scorn of being furloughed.

So yes, as trivial as it may seem, an airline seniority number that you obtain in your "initial" New Hire Class is more valuable than you realize. Doubt it?? Just ask the guy one number junior to you if he just so happens to get his "paper's" while you tow the end of the line as the last active pilot standing.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:15 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by SoCalGuy View Post
.....Says he (she) who has never been at the "8Ball" on a furlough list??

The difference in "single number" can separate you from holding onto the dead bottom-rung, versus sitting on the street for days/months/years awaiting a recall if you are unfortunate enough to feel the scorn of being furloughed.

So yes, as trivial as it may seem, an airline seniority number that you obtain in your "initial" New Hire Class is more valuable than you realize. Doubt it?? Just ask the guy one number junior to you if he just so happens to get his "paper's" while you tow the end of the line as the last active pilot standing.
No, I don't doubt it at all. All I'm saying is, how they determine seniority number at United doesn't mean a thing to me, right now.

My point is, we shouldn't put the cart before the horse, I'd like to get hired at United before I fret on how seniority is established within a new hire class.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux View Post
No, I don't doubt it at all. All I'm saying is, how they determine seniority number at United doesn't mean a thing to me, right now.

My point is, we shouldn't put the cart before the horse, I'd like to get hired at United before I fret on how seniority is established within a new hire class.
True enough. And along those lines never defer an interview or a class date. At the conclusion of his interview at DAL a friend of mine was offered a class date "next Tuesday." He wisely took it. He missed being furloughed by just about that much.

A guy in my class showed up to class with a healing broken foot. Training folks wanted to roll him to another class. He convinced them that by the time he needed his foot for any training it would be healed. They let him stay. Again, years later, being in that class kept him above the cut for a round of furloughs.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:40 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by APC225 View Post
True enough. And along those lines never defer an interview or a class date. At the conclusion of his interview at DAL a friend of mine was offered a class date "next Tuesday." He wisely took it. He missed being furloughed by just about that much.
Fantastic advice! I've heard of guys who were lucky enough to get an interview or a class date that have asked for later dates because they had tickets to a game or wanted to go on holiday or something else, trivial-like. I can understand non-refundable, honeymoon trips, but anything short of that, I just can't comprehend not taking the first date offered.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:01 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux View Post
Great point, and could be a big deal.
BUT, it's not even worth worrying about until an offer of employment is given.
Guys that are getting themselves wrapped up over whether seniority within a class is determined by age, reverse social security number, height or whatever are needlessly thinking about things that don't matter, until at least someone gets a class date.
Still, I guess it fills the time during the day to speculate.
Understand ALL you points, but to echo what the other guys have said;

1) When I took my FIRST displacement from the CA's seat back to FO, I was the most senior pilot to be displaced. ALL that separated me from the other guy was ONE number. Not even a class date difference.

2) When I took my FIRST furlough, I was the second most senior (second from the top) to be let go. AGAIN, not even a class date difference, just where the line fell.

3) The SECOND time I was displaced from the CA's seat back to FO, I was fourth down the list. AGAIN, guys more senior to me in class got to stay in the seat, not even a class difference.

4) The first time I bid for upgrade, I put off by ONE class date. It had to do with a contractual issue as far as whether or not a hotel would be provided and per diem would be paid. The way things shook out, waiting on ONE class I would have gotten the hotel/per diem, taking the previous class I wouldn't. Being on RJ FO pay, it would have been pricey to put myself up for a 3 month training cycle, on min grnty pay, with NO perdiem. That decision was based on at that time, my company had upgrade classes planned for the next six months.

Well, things changed. Going back to point #1, the guys that went the class before mine got to stay in the CA's seat due to a withholding issue, multiple fleet types, not being able to spare pilots and transition to other fleet types, seat locks, etc etc etc.

So, again to echo what other have said, seniority does matter. And unless it's some serious circumstances, NEVER EVER EVER turn down an class date. Whether it's a new hire, OR an upgrade class.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:32 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux View Post
Winning the lottery is just getting hired, who really cares about initial seniority?
Just remember this my friend,

What seems like a winning lottery ticket today can quickly turn into a nightmare tomorrow. Do you remember the 90's when LUAL was THE place to be? We had FedEx,CAL, SWA, UPS, and folks from other big airlines coming over in droves. We were the golden child there was no end in sight. It went from the promised land to HE!! in about one years time.

Yes the first step is getting hired. But your initial seniorty number will stick with you for the rest of your life and may well be the difference between nirvana and the 7th ring of airline he!!.

Oh yeah and don't go buying that new house and new car just yet. Put some money in the bank first.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:33 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux View Post
My point is, we shouldn't put the cart before the horse, I'd like to get hired at United before I fret on how seniority is established within a new hire class.
Fair enough.

If that proverbial cart should meet up with the horse's a$$ end regarding a hiring opportunity extending by a desired carrier in your book.......RUN, do not walk......I think that's been made clear.

Good luck.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:36 PM
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AirHoss and SoCalGuy, truer advice was never spoken!

Save that money! Run to that first opportunity!

SoCalGuy, I love the avatar too!
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