Please help me to understand
 

Are you referring to the contract hotline?

I don't think so. Why do you ask? Do work on the contract hotline?

No, but they are worth every dollar when you have a question. Does the CAL side have a contract hotline?

Calforums.

Yes, UDO.

Union Duty Officer, 100% volunteer position.

No, sCAL does not have a Contract Hotline. We do have pilots that work contract issues and work in “Grievance”or Scheduling from about 9am to 4pm Mon -Fri & except Holidays. Those pilots are paid trip loss and no extras as far as I know. We also have Union Duty Officers (UDOs) that are not paid. So after hours weekend and holidays when you need help you call the UDO. UDOs do this while working the line or sitting reserve or on thier off time. UDOs should never have to buy their own beer.
I will agree to disagree with you if someone in a paid union position is worth more money than what they could get paid on the line or sitting reserves if there are other benefits to that position, such as working out of your home and never missing important times with your family like Christmas, birthdays and other special events without taking sick leave. Add to that we have had those same pilots turn around and work for management when their union job peters out.
What I was asking in this thread is about the few union pilots (like committee chairmen)that are getting that extra pay that no other union pilot or line pilot is getting. Isn’t the contract done? Or are they going to stretch this out as long as they can? Whose best interest are they serving?

Absolutely agree.

They will stretch it out as long as they can, they always do.

The general tone of this thread is interesting, and spot-on for some of our union "volunteers." I could probably name two or three names right now, that in my opinion, are riding the clock as hard as they can, or spending so much time jockeying for position in the unified union that they get no constructive work done. However, and this is a big however, most of our volunteers, whether paid or unpaid, are working their buns off trying to make life better for their pilot group.

Interestingly, the company is probably a much better place to work. Just like on this forum, when someone posts an unpopular opinion, the keyboard kommandos come out en-masse to ridicule, belittle, and scorn.

I literally went to a cockpit when DHing one time to explain a CBA provision to a captain who had let me know through email that he was unhappy. I carefully explained that the CBA allowed the company to do exactly what it was doing, and I couldn't help him. His response to me was "If you can't get me what I want, you are worthless, and should resign!" You would be amazed at how often your committee members are abused this way. No wonder some of our brothers decide to quit union work, and still others to go to the other side.

I am anticipating a purge of the L-CAL committee members with SLI, and after serving on various committees for almost half of my career, I am kind of looking forward to NOT receiving midnight emails and texts from unhappy guys who don't like the CBA, and somehow believe it is my fault that the CBA says what is says. BTW, I have NEVER been involved with negotiating any CBA.

Have you read the contract? If so did you notice that there are implementation dates that are up to a year after the date of signing?

If the "UPA ALPA contract reps" that you're referring to are the members of the Joint Implementation Task Team (JIT) which comprises of Negotiating Committee Members from both CAL and UAL along with SME's, then yes, they are absolutely essential and should be in place until the job is done. Until the contract is fully implemented and there is agreement as to how the CBA is administered by UAL, the JITs full engagement and over site is crucial. In my opinion they don't get paid enough, nor will they ever get the 4 years of fulltime/overtime work on your behalf back.

FPL for handfull of pilots is a drop in the bucket when you consider what's at stake. Out of curiosity, what does your tie tac look like?

Yes I did read the contract. Maybe you can explain why it takes a year to implement it and why these folks need to be unqualified working out of their homes and making more than other hard working union members and line pilots? Is the contract done? Is not the implementation dates already set by the LOA? Please enlighten me?
IMO we have people that just want to get paid as a pilot without being one. Anyone have an idea what is longest a committee member has gone without being qualified in their equipment, getting that extra pay, working out of their home and not missing special days with their families? One year, Two years, Three? Now I know why it will take a year to implement the CBA. What is the incentive for folks in these positions to do this quicker? It certainly doesn’t benefit them or the company.
My tie tac - ALPA. My bags ALPA. My lanyard -ALPA. If you think this is an attack against our union, you’re wrong. If you think this is an attack against the fraud waste and abuse by a few within our union you are correct.

I know we complain about the leadership and politics of ALPA; but, thank you, and all volunteers, for your hard work.

My last 3 years at sUAL before I left I flew with 3 FO's that were "involved" with the union before the furlough in late 2001. I asked what they did on furlough. They said "I worked for ALPA". The more questions I asked, the more defensive they got.

Apparently ALPA takes care of their own. When a normal line pilot gets furloughed, he has to fend for himself. When an ALPA cronie gets furloughed, there is a job created for them, and the remaining pilots get charged extra as a "furlough fund".

The current ALPA furlough coordinator at sUAL has now held the position twice of furlough. If I remember right, he got a pay raise when he was furloughed, the first time, and went to work for ALPA. I don't know what his current deal is with ALPA, but he holds the same title he did from 2002 till he came back to work at UAL and I worked with him.

I questioned all of them about how they got the job. Was the job advertised for all UAL pilots? Did they interview for the job? You can pretty much guess at the evasive answers I got.

Ask the company why an IT company with wings couldn't integrate the required systems at the date of signing, it's something that ALPA has no control over, although the UAL corp. couldn't pull off the integration. The members of the JIT are in place to enforce your contractual rights that the company has not yet implemented.

The CBA is signed, the implementation is not complete. That is a very important point to consider.

You said you read the contract, what's your question?

Based on your observations, I'm guessing your not a regular at union meetings. You do know you can call your rep and get all these answers, right? Fiscal responsibility is the duty of every union member, but you're so off base it's not even funny.

Yes, they're called union members, all of them. Even you.

Furloughs suck no doubt, but should you blame the union? Blame the company? Blame the economy? Who furloughed you, ALPA? How dare the union create a full time job for a furloughed union member right!? Sorry you didn't get that job, but your welcome for the COBRA insurance payment. In a perfect world, what was the answer?

Your right about two things.
1. I do not attend regual union meetings. Kind of hard to do when your working and can't attend those meetings. I do read the emails from my union and ask qurstions of my rep who I think is honest and hard working. However, I also think he is protective of those that abuse the system within ALPA.

2. You are correct that this is not funny. You still have not answered my basic questions but passed the blame.

Do mind if I ask you a couple of questions. Are a line pilot or work out of home for the union? Are you unqualed in your equipment?

Passed blame? What don't you understand about the contract is signed but not fully implemented? You've been so vague about what the problem is and you're also unable or unwilling to name an individual or a committee, how could I possibly pass blame? I'm not even sure who you're talking about other than the ambiguous "those guys who abuse the system".
Yes I'm a line pilot, qualified and current in my equipment who also volunteers to do union work. What a concept huh? You?

Thank You!

There are a million tiny items that need to be worked out by the JIT. Now I know that all of us fully trust management, and know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that management will fully implement the UPA fairly and equitably, but I prefer to have someone from my team watching the ball. Also, keep in mind that there are two versions of ALPA that really don't trust each other either, so there are a lot of watchers----for lack of a better term. Further, everyone on both sides is afraid------man this is extremely important----that some issue or another that is not properly addressed, will negatively impact their side of the ISL.

Quote:

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IMO we have people that just want to get paid as a pilot without being one. Anyone have an idea what is longest a committee member has gone without being qualified in their equipment, getting that extra pay, working out of their home and not missing special days with their families? One year, Two years, Three? Now I know why it will take a year to implement the CBA. What is the incentive for folks in these positions to do this quicker? It certainly doesn’t benefit them or the company.

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Yep, to find guys who want to be airline pilots but don't want to actually fly, you need look no further than the 23rd floor in Chicago, DENTK, IAHPS, CPOs, ALPA, LTD, etc. On the other hand, this doesn't mean that they don't do a good job. A pilot who loves to fly airplanes is probably not going to be the best at one of these jobs because his head is in the clouds. There are certainly slackers, but most of the union volunteers that I know put in many more hours than they are paid for. In my years as a union volunteer, I have spent many unpaid hours each month replying to emails, helping pilots, and drilling into data to determine what it really means. When the average line pilot gets home, all he needs to do is not answer the phone---problem solved. Not so for your volunteers. At least not if they take their job seriously.

As far as being qualified in equipment, why? Suppose you know that position X is going to be non-stop full-time for three years. Why waste the time and money keeping that person qualified. Let's see, if you haven't actually flown a trip for 12 months, then you probably need several days to study, three days for CQ/MV/LOE, and then a few days more for your re-test after you fail.

Is there fraud and waste? Absolutely! Is it the norm? NO!


Just keep in mind that every time that you or some other pilot attacks a union volunteer, you make is less likely that he/she will return. That is how you end up with guys who go to the dark side, and how you end up with perfectly qualified guys who just drop out. Then the less qualified hacks end up in important positions.

Yes, I too am qualified in my equipment and have volunteered to do union work and will continue to do so. Not an unusual concept at all.
I just don't like kool-aide.

Is that why TS left? Yes most, the majority, are hard working good honest guys that work in our union, both paid and volunteers alike. I argue that if the union leadership turns a blind eye to fraud, waste and abuse that will be the most damaging thing to happen to our union.

In a perfect world... In the real world, politics are ugly.

If you are plugged into ALPA work and understand how it works I can only guess that is a personal grudge? What's the kool-aide as it apply's to guys on full-time FPL while the contract is still being implemented? Was it OK during negotiations? The more you share, the more it sounds personal. Sour grapes?

Probably an astute assessment.

I salute you and your union brothers (and sisters) who do the heavy and sometimes unpopular work on behalf of the ignorant majority who always complain . I'm a P2P guy and don't see how you find the time to go beyond...

Again, you try to make this out to be an attack on our union. Nice try. This is about waste and abuse of a few which I do have a "personal grudge" against. IMO there would not be a problem if there was oversight on this by ALPA. IMO the Financial Oversight Committee was a good idea. Concerning waste and abuse- the more we are willing to accept this the more it will become the norm.

I'm going with sour grapes! He went from a clueless low life to the resident expert in just a few posts! :rolleyes:

Thank you for your service also!

FWIW, I believe that as long as there are outstanding merger issues and an Agreement that is yet to be fully implemented, ALPA needs to keep a close eye on what goes on. We owe a lot of thanks to the volunteers who perform ALPA work and I would like to do so now.
I have never been a volunteer but if being an ALPA volunteer turns out to be occasionally financial rewarding then they deserve it. These guys and gals take time away from their own families to help us have a better workplace