What is the next move?????
 

How do we let these guys float to the top. Considering the current tally for JH, it's time for him to go. What's he going to give away next for the sake of unity. If you think Wendy was bad for the pilots during this merger, all you got with JH was the male version. Time for him to go - tell your local reps.

And tell all our ALPA brothers he'll be looking to replace Moak at National shortly. Can you imagine what he'll give away at that level?

I think the best way to get the message across is for everyone senior to me to resign.

Thank's for such a well-reasoned and clearly articulated position statement. Because of your liberal use of clear examples and informative power of persuasion, it's clear that all current ALPA volunteers should just quit.

Alternatively, how about you pop the top on another cold one and go mutter to yourself in the corner.

And then it's possible JH is trolling for support from the cal types when he makes his move for national. Belly Up - didn't he just give you some chump change?

Not sure what he gave away. If you went to a union meeting in the last 6 months, you would have known that all the company was offering was to take back the money. And furthermore, the odds of getting actual cash damages was a long shot. This grievance was about violating the TPA/status quo, not about us getting shorted on PS. That is the next one...3L. Demanding that the company take back the CAL ps would be a huge mistake, and a Company wet dream. It's done.

Oh, and all we got with JH v Wendy was a CONTRACT!!

Sled

By all accounts that contract was less than the LUAL contract. Jeff and JP didn't think it would be accepted by the pilot group or we wouldn't have seen it to vote. JH got lucky when it did and now you consider him a genius - really? He give away far more than we should have because he considers himself the GREAT NEGOTIATOR and that's all he knows - NOT A LEADER. All United pilots lost - let JH hit the road.

The UAL MEC has been clear from the start of the profit sharing grievance that they don't take issue with CAL pilots getting paid, however they do take issue that the company violated the TP&A.

The UAL MEC grieved it and won, although the remedy allowed the company to claw back the money from CAL pilots. What's the benefit to the UAL pilot group, or the combined pilot group to take the money away from the CAL pilots? Clawing back money from CAL pilots, doesn't mean that amount is handed over to the UAL side, so who benefits other than the company?

I'm all for exposing (and never forgetting) the BS of JP and crew AND the company, but tossing out the MEC because the company won one doesn't make sense.

No, JH initially tried to get contract improvements for all United pilots because he thought that would be palatable to both groups and it be worth more money. Guess what, Jeff saw it as a weakness and the company lawyers dug in their hills. The cal side got paid and Ual side didn't. It was JH that played this game and we now have a continued rift between the groups - he is no better than JP. He needs to go.

Like a joint CBA for a merged airline?

No like improvements to an already ratified UPA. He should have gone straight for compensation for the Ual side and not contract improvement for all. As it turns out he gave away LUal money but hey, the cal side got paid that amount - why complain.

You are so out of touch it's alarming. You can thank Wendy and JP for completely destroying whatever leverage we had via the DOJ. After that, it was game over for us, and the company knew it.... as demonstrated by the pace of negotiations before and after DOJ approval.

Our contract may not be great, but considering he was fighting the company AND JP, I think JH pulled a rabbit out of the hat. As a LUAL pilot you ought to know that time was the enemy, and the deal needed to get done ASAP.

You need to provide evidence to back that up. That's not the way I heard it.

OK, I'm with ya, post CBA (12/2012) and pre SLI (9/13).
No doubt UAL pilots got hosed on this, but what's the future benefit other than a few bucks in your pocket and the ability to swing your wood? The 2nd part of the grievance has yet to be answered and could result in some cash, no?

Yes I agree but it wasn't because JH did it - it fell in his lap and I guess he can accept congrats for it. This event was separate from all that and JH played the wrong cards trying to turn it into a windfall for all instead of compensating those wronged. JH needs to go.

That was hashed on this forum and others - I'm sure if you use a search function you'll he able to find some of the arguments and concerns for his tactics. JH wanted to stay on the high road but ended up falling in the valley. JH needs to go.

ps - jsled supported JH's stunt to get contract improvement as a settlement. Search his post for reference.

"hopeSales"....Who are you and what is your motivation?...Are you a senior WB captain or a 2172? Running for office?, UPA pusher?.....Me, I'm just a lowly 1997 UAL hire sitting in the right seat of the 76T in IAH. Crappy as it may be, The UPA JH brought us and 67 percent voted for was a necessity. Not sure what your intentions are with your statements. Enlighten us by revealing a little more about yourself please. I'm not wasting my time digging up anyone's posting history.

"hopesales" you seem a little out of sync with the rest of the Universe. What equipment are you on? Mac or PC?

Absolute complete and total horse scooby. You think that this contract just "fell into Hepner's lap"??? With that one statement you lose any and all credibility. You know that simply isn't true. And if you don't, you should. Done responding to you after that comment

What is horse scooby?

Heppner didn't get you a contract. It was the timing and pressure from the NMB.

Morse got nothing but back stabbing from the MEC but we would have had the contract whether she was in or Heppner was in.

Yes, the current UPA fell in the lap of JH when Jeff and JP let it go out for ratification. With all the chest thumping, Jeff assumed the CBA would be voted down by the "rank and file" and that would put the final nail in the coffin of the LUAL MEC. Leaving his puppet (JP) to lead the battered group. You forget that JP was delivering for his guys. He went outside the TPA to get his guys 40M ?profit sharing?. Insisting on several things in the CBA that would improve the ISL position of his guys. Helping Jeff delay the CBA/UPA and all along helping with the Captain seat theft for his guys. The list goes on but you get the jest - he was delivering.

The very thing that Jeff and JP didn't count on was the CAL pilots seeing though the smoke and voting along with the LUAL side. For what it was, the CAL guys breaking from JP and company to ratify the CBA deserves more credit than JH. It just fell in JH's lap.

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Won the arbitration and lost the award. The collective group would have been much better off had JH said "Yes, take the money back" if that's the only remedy available. It would have said to Jeff that we have agreements and we expect them to be honored. Jeff didn't want the money taken back anymore than JH or the "rank and file" for that matter. When JH tried to turn the award into gains for the collective group and seek improvements to the just implemented UPA - Jeff said game offer - I win. Think that little battle wasn't important? Look at what's being done to your contract on a daily basis.

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If we ever expect to move forward, we need to demand strong leadership from our appointed leaders. If you think JH is the one, would you share some of the things he's actually done to improve the life of a typical United Pilot? He's been involved in ALPA for years and our leader during one of our most important times - I'd bet that list would be several pages long. Would you share, please!

IIRC, Jay Pierce (****wad arsehole that he is) was openly supportive of passing the TA.

Wendy Morse seeming misread the LCAL sides intentions and strategy. It wasn't until the spring of 2012 that pressure was REALLY put on the LCAL side to move the ball forward. I have nothing against Wendy Morse, but she misplayed the relationship between the two MECs and we suffered at the hands of Jay Pierce for too long as a result.

I agree with the Wendy part but if JP supported the TA it was for appearance and due diligence not because it was the right thing to do.

You're probably right about that. Pierce should never be trusted.

You know whats ironic HOPE, this whole post and your life mission as Staller and whoever else you pretend to be, you and AXLF16 rail on JP!! Yet, you give him credit (see above) on how EFFECTIVE he was for the pilots he REPRESENTED at the time (LCAL)!! Now you say get rid of JH and put somebody in office that can get something done for the pilot group they represent!! Sounds to me like you're screaming for JP to come back and get things done!! :eek:

NO - you read something into that. JP was only effective because he was Jeff's puppet. It only appeared that JP was effective but it was still Jeff's show to upstage the UAL MEC and control the new UAL MEC through JP. The POS known as JP will never float to the top again.

Ok, "Hope", I'm dying to know...Who are you and what is your motivation here. Are you are a mid 90's LUAL hire like many of us here? From your "way out in left field" posts it wouldn't surprise me if you were an angry furloughee, LCAL pilot, or JP himself. It's obvious that you hate JH with a passion. He's no messiah IMO either. So, who do you think would do or would have done a better job? Earn some credibility here...Enlighten us....

This thread is full of emotions and to me seems to leave a few things out....
The company will always seek to operate at lower cost/less restrictive when two employee groups with different contracts are involved. Thus the build up of the CAL side at the expense of the UAL pilots pre UPA. To submit that JP and Jeff were in cahoots is pretty naive.
Pre SLI/UPA it was JP's task to represent the CAL pilots, not a future combined pilot group.
JH recognized the importance of completing and getting a new joint contract to stop the whipsawing of the two pilot groups. If there could have been more gold at the end of the rainbow is something we'll never know.
As a Capt. with 15 years+ to go I am glad that we have a contract that will be the foundation for a joint UAL pilot group that we can improve on substantially at the next cycle.

Not looking for credibility, don't hate anybody and feel that my post are fair. I may not be politically correct and I still distrust most CAL people but I hold no malice. I spoke against JP because of what he did to both pilot groups during the merger process and the ultimate cost to the pilots. JH served as a whipping boy but outlasted JP. You would have thought JH would lead once appointed to represent all United pilots but he failed and failed miserably. If the only relieve he could have gotten for the PS grievance was to have the company go get the money, he should have asked for it. The company knows he's weak and the United pilots will continue to lose as long as he holds the MC position. He needs to do the right thing and step to the side.

"I spoke against JP because of what he did to both pilot groups during the merger process and the ultimate cost to the pilots"

.....That statement I WILL agree with you on! The rest, not so much. What year were you hired at UAL?

I don't think hire date has anything to do with my post. I'd feel the same as the last man on the list or the first. What is relevant is the leadership both pilot groups have been denied. The United pilots are hoping JH will lead but with the continued actions of the company breaking and litigation our contract you have to ask what has JH been doing? This will continue because the company has no respect for JH. It would be nice to have a RD type standup and say if you do that my guys will do this and mean it and deliver.

JH is along for the ride and expects to be the next ALPA national leader. That would be a big mistake almost as bad as Prater.

I hope that guy is not a United pilot. I can see where some LCAL guys are having trouble with everything going on but there is help though the company, ALPA and medical facilities to help and keep it from getting that bad. Good Luck!

hopeSales 😬 joined this blog Jan 2014- I wonder?