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-   -   UAL growth/used planes article (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/86523-ual-growth-used-planes-article.html)

baseball 02-22-2015 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by Flybynight42 (Post 1827308)
Devil's Advocate: Aren't there 3 legacy carriers that have 10,000 applicants to divvy up, each wanting to hire several hundred a year? With several hundred retiring each year? Oh, plus SWA, Jet Blue, Spirit, Frontier, the fractionals and foreign carriers?


Yes and NO

Remember, that most applicants apply to multiple airlines. When they get hired they may or may not be revoking their application at other airlines.

Each airline could have 13,000 applications, but it is a safe assumption that the same 13,000 (plus or minus) that applied at UAL, also applied at DAL, etc, etc.

UAL T38 Phlyer 02-22-2015 04:19 PM

^^+10-13,000.

krudawg 02-22-2015 04:42 PM


Originally Posted by baseball (Post 1829924)
Yes and NO

Remember, that most applicants apply to multiple airlines. When they get hired they may or may not be revoking their application at other airlines.

Each airline could have 13,000 applications, but it is a safe assumption that the same 13,000 (plus or minus) that applied at UAL, also applied at DAL, etc, etc.

My guess is at some point in the near future there will be a pilot shortage - the ATP rule for one and the extreme cost for a civilian to get the training. There will always be a steady supply of highly qualified military pilots but at some point, that supply will be inadequate either because the military might increase commitments or there will be wars and they won't be leaving the service. The airlines will turn to the FAA and ask for relief on the ATP rule and thus open up the pipeline from the bottom up (Regionals to Majors).

pilot64golfer 02-22-2015 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by krudawg (Post 1829939)
My guess is at some point in the near future there will be a pilot shortage - the ATP rule for one and the extreme cost for a civilian to get the training. There will always be a steady supply of highly qualified military pilots but at some point, that supply will be inadequate either because the military might increase commitments or there will be wars and they won't be leaving the service. The airlines will turn to the FAA and ask for relief on the ATP rule and thus open up the pipeline from the bottom up (Regionals to Majors).

There might be an overall pilot shortage, but United will not have a problem hiring pilots. United will just hire them from the regionals, military, overseas, and other pilots who have ATPs, creating shortages in those area.

But United doesn't have a pilot shortage.

This video explains exactly how many pilots there are out there and how many jobs they are competing for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKanuyeawc

mrmak2 02-22-2015 06:11 PM

FWIW, my impression on the first year pay raise rumor was that it's kind of a stop-gap measure to stay relevant in attracting talent. Yes, we all realize there are 10k+ apps out there, but maybe it's the top 5% of those that all the legacies want (or at least want to have the option to hire).

Delta and American have made improvements in their respective contracts, and although United's contract isn't inferior yet, I think lagging behind in profits and remnants of the merger stagnation make it a tough call for the top prospects applying to all three legacies. This effectively would be a way of sweetening the pot without a full blown contract negotiation (especially if in a few years management isn't keen on negotiating quickly).

Purely a theory though

JetPilotMike 02-23-2015 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by cal73 (Post 1829850)
But what would we do with all the money we saved doing that?

Shut down your APU and do not question Sabre.

While you're at it, don't take a direct going westbound when on an optimized wind route! Sabre isn't so bad. Much better than that crap Phoenix put out.

Macdacpilot 02-25-2015 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by Andy (Post 1827341)
United needs to double the number of pilots hired. 700/year isn't enough.

We are rapidly approaching a point where regional flying will be completely unreliable due to their manning issues. Time to replace 2 RJs with one mainline NB.

But I don't expect increased hiring to dwindle the list of qualified pilots much because there will be plenty of new applications. And I'm willing to bet that 10,000 is a very low estimate of current applications on file.

Edit: I just noticed that Endeavor Air and SkyWest are advertising on this website for FOs with signing bonuses. Sweet. That should accelerate the retirement of RJs.

Correct, it's closer to 13,000 applications on file now. That's straight from management at DENTK last December.

pilot64golfer 02-25-2015 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by Macdacpilot (Post 1831891)
Correct, it's closer to 13,000 applications on file now. That's straight from management at DENTK last December.

Right. But some guys can't see past that. They just take worse case scenario (i.e. they have apps in everywhere) and then they assume one the pool is depleted there are no more pilots. The Club of Rome said (in the 1970s) we would be out of oil worldwide by 2010 using the same logic. Of course we kept finding more oil, faster than we were using it.

But despite having hired 1,000 off the street in the last few years, plus removing another 400 by interviewing and not hiring them, the number of applicants has grown.

There may be an "overall" pilot shortage at some point in the future, but it won't affect United's hiring. Like the video explained, there are more than enough pilots, just not enough to fly for $18,000 a year starting pay. I don't blame them, they are certainly worth more than that.

There are 4 true majors. United, American, Delta, and SWA. Those 4 are the ones everyone is trying to get to. Yes there are other good airline jobs, but these are really the ones at the top of the list for most pilots out there.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the regionals over the next few years though.

XHooker 02-25-2015 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by pilot64golfer (Post 1831907)
There are 4 true majors. United, American, Delta, and SWA. Those 4 are the ones everyone is trying to get to. Yes there are other good airline jobs, but these are really the ones at the top of the list for most pilots out there.

FedEx, UPS and Alaska combined are roughly equivalent to one more in term of size.

pilot64golfer 02-25-2015 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by XHooker (Post 1831960)
FedEx, UPS and Alaska combined are roughly equivalent to one more in term of size.

No question. Lots of guys want to go there too. Also good jobs. They would also be immune to a pilot shortage. Now the other 100 airlines and air companies out there, not so much.


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