Maybe you missed it, there is a new deal that was proposed yesterday at the quarterly MEC meeting.

Yes, I missed it. Anyone have the gist?

I haven't seen the chain mail that's going around but supposedly there is one. Couple threads about it on the ualpilots forum.

Here's some of the letter that's been posted.

The items to be discussed will be agreed upon in advance by the parties. We anticipate based on previous conversations the items will include
a. Compensation
b. Retroactive longevity for furloughees for pay and vacation
c. MOU 22 Replacement
d. Reserve assignment process improvements
e. FRMS

6. Any extension to the UPA will also include a firm order of NSNBs on the United Mainline property flown by United pilots.

Thanks. That last point could get very interesting.

I agree. Dangle the "shiny new jets" carrot lol.

I have some concerns. I heard about this from "rumors." My concerns are two fold:

A. From ALPA: we could end up losing leverage and mess up on the timing. I do believe those currently in negotiations will raise the bar for us and help our cause.

B. From the company: They are really good at hiding profits. They can go out and buy back stock, buy new AGE equipment, invest in other airlines, gives various corporate and manager bonuses, and to make matters worse they can move money from long term to short term to cash investment positions is all over the place. ALPA/pilots have little control and sometimes it's hard to watch them move the money. So, how do we get our fair share of the profits visa-vi bonuses, etc, when management does this?

I lean towrds no deal for two reasons:

A. If we go down the tubes, we go down the tubes, the deal won't matter when a bankruptcy judge nullifies it.

B. If we miss the wave we have to leverage in retro pay or some other type of lucrative signing bonus down the road

In Scenario A above this would mean our managers haven't figured out yet how to run an airline. They won't listen to pilots or our inputs or suggestions. We're the ones with the high fidelity corporate knowledge of how the operation needs to run. Look at our new STUPID push back procedures. We are the shock absorber that fixes or hides their lunacy.

In Scenario B above the world economy slows down and/or the security environment has adversely affect interstate commerce and world trade.

Legacy CAL pilots call this the "miracle lure." Remember that cool lure that catches every fish in the sea and those super cool infomercials? All you need is a shiney new jet and two treble hooks and eureka you got it.

Deal or no deal, these are very interesting times. I have no opinion on whether we should entertain an extension offer from the company, and trust that my reps have a better strategy than anything I could come up with.

However, this is the first time in my 20+ years here (LUAL) that I've seen an offer come EARLY. It is usually pulling teeth to get them to show up at the table for a few years after the amendable date. This in and of itself is fascinating to me, and makes me wonder what has changed to facilitate this new strategy. Perhaps it was the fact that Delta pulled it on us last negotiating cycle. They knew they were going last so offered their pilots a good solid contract (given the at-that-time negotiating environment) which forced United to match and increased our labor costs many times over what it WOULD have been. With DAL's failed TA, SWA's and FEDEX's soon to be failed TA, plus AMR's "me-too" clause kicking in in 2016, perhaps this is an attempt from our management to drive up the labor costs for the rest of the industry by going first in the cycle. Very interesting times indeed.

Bingo. They never seem too worried except for perceptions. Our money, the lawyers can always get to it.

Do anyone really want to keep the current PBS and trip trading system for 2 extra years? Oh and the wonderful global res rules?

I think that's a bit simplistic. Going Ch11 just because we are in tougher economic times and they want to nullify a pilot contract isn't reasonable. In the history of LUAL we have had 1 Ch11 filing and it took 9/11 to make it happen. In my opinion the threat of negotiating during a recession 2 years from now is much stronger than the risk of going Ch11 within 4. There are a LOT of very rich people and corporations with a LOT of influence who are very invested in making sure we don't go that route. Just think how obsessed with the stock price SmallStack was! Now imagine if the threat was for the stock to go to zero.

I filing yep, but 9-11 just accelerated us into the direction we were headed.

Agree to an extent. Things were definitely headed south before 9/11, but would we have actually filed Ch11 without it? Tough to say, but based on the number of carriers that filed Ch11 after 9/11 vs any other time in history, I tend to doubt it. We didn't file in 2008/2009 during a MAJOR recession

UAL,

This isn't a knock on you but I'm surprised how many posters (current, not prospective United pilots) get their info from this forum. Wouldn't they have the ability to go on the ualpilots forum to gain the information?

ST

I think some folks visit it for awhile but the toxicity just drives them away.

Each board takes on its own character. Believe it or not, this board is quite civil compared to that board. That board is good for gleaning factual data but it seems like "discussions" of any kind often devolve into acrimony against fellow pilots that's just surprising. It's odd that this, an anonymous board whose anonymity usual leads to more attack tactic interchanges, is actually much less that way. I've seen some pretty wild things said on this board, including by me, but it generally to gets centered back out after a few posts. Similar exchanges over there are all accerator no brake, an uncontrolled PIO, and not for the faint of heart. IMO.

APC225 summed it. I like the fact that many of our own union volunteers are there and you can get quick factual information (albiet often with a heavy does of sarcasm) with references. Many posts still spiral into an SLI debate or the mutual hatred of SCABs or management but if you can sift through the BS you can glean a lot of good info.

Very much so. It can be like a PDR hotline.

Dang. I've been trying to get on that forum for a month. Admin won't email me back with an approval. Maybe I got fired and no one told me. I'm like Melvin on Office Space