Letter to Council 5 Reps
12-07-2015, 05:01 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by Probe
I don't understand your point. A 50% increase in wide-bodies is a bad thing, and we need to stop it by rejecting the AIP?
The logic employed that we need to use our leverage more - I just don't get it. Both the company and the pilots want growth in ULH flying. But some of the pilots want to make it difficult for the company to do this?
If we approve the AIP and vote it in, we get some good stuff. it makes it easier for the company to expand international flying. We get more pilots flying lucrative routes. It sure seems like we are getting something extra, for something that benefits us. I don't see how we lose if we accept the AIP.
Please, someone explain why this AIP is a bad thing.
The logic employed that we need to use our leverage more - I just don't get it. Both the company and the pilots want growth in ULH flying. But some of the pilots want to make it difficult for the company to do this?
If we approve the AIP and vote it in, we get some good stuff. it makes it easier for the company to expand international flying. We get more pilots flying lucrative routes. It sure seems like we are getting something extra, for something that benefits us. I don't see how we lose if we accept the AIP.
Please, someone explain why this AIP is a bad thing.
Setting record straight on canceling ATL-Dubai route | Delta News Hub
12-07-2015, 05:08 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Eddie, are you suggesting that we offer to work for less? That if we work cheaper that we'll be in a better position to compete with ME carriers? And that some here (myself and others), are simply going to price us right out of the market (or perhaps into unemployment) with our unreasonable opinion of what we're worth? Do you agree with Probe's assertion? 
Last edited by oldmako; 12-07-2015 at 05:31 PM.
12-07-2015, 05:34 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by oldmako
Eddie, are you suggesting that we offer to work for less? That if we work cheaper that we'll be in a better position to compete with ME carriers? And that some here (myself and others), are simply going to price us right into unemployment with unreasonable expectations? Do you agree with Probe's assertion?
12-07-2015, 05:44 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Fair enough.
I don't necessarily think we ought to dump it, I just don't think the MEC should send it out for a vote unless its a total home run. Unfortunately, I don't trust them to do that. I can easily see them forwarding a marginal agreement and then it being ratified after a month of fear mongering and sales jobs.
I don't think that if we shoot this down that it will take years for us to get out next contract. Most here do and we've beaten that to death so I won't belabor that point...unless of course someone posts something inaccurate and inflammatory.
Did you read that article you posted? Labor costs had virtually nothing to do with DAL scrapping that route. Even if everyone worked for free, govt subsidies will rule the day.
I don't necessarily think we ought to dump it, I just don't think the MEC should send it out for a vote unless its a total home run. Unfortunately, I don't trust them to do that. I can easily see them forwarding a marginal agreement and then it being ratified after a month of fear mongering and sales jobs.
I don't think that if we shoot this down that it will take years for us to get out next contract. Most here do and we've beaten that to death so I won't belabor that point...unless of course someone posts something inaccurate and inflammatory.
Did you read that article you posted? Labor costs had virtually nothing to do with DAL scrapping that route. Even if everyone worked for free, govt subsidies will rule the day.
12-07-2015, 05:58 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by oldmako
Fair enough.
I don't necessarily think we ought to dump it, I just don't think the MEC should send it out for a vote unless its a total home run. And, I don't trust them to do that. I can easily see them giving us a lousy agreement to vote on, and then it being ratified.
I don't think that if we shoot this down that it will take years for us to get out next contract. Most here do and we've beaten that to death so I won't belabor that point...unless of course someone posts something inaccurate and inflammatory.
Did you read that article you posted? Labor costs had virtually nothing to do with DAL scrapping that route. Even if everyone worked for free, govt subsidies will rule the day.
I don't necessarily think we ought to dump it, I just don't think the MEC should send it out for a vote unless its a total home run. And, I don't trust them to do that. I can easily see them giving us a lousy agreement to vote on, and then it being ratified.
I don't think that if we shoot this down that it will take years for us to get out next contract. Most here do and we've beaten that to death so I won't belabor that point...unless of course someone posts something inaccurate and inflammatory.
Did you read that article you posted? Labor costs had virtually nothing to do with DAL scrapping that route. Even if everyone worked for free, govt subsidies will rule the day.
12-07-2015, 07:22 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 73 CA EWR
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by CousinEddie
All good points on your end. I did read the article and you are right that the subsidies are by far the larger issue. Not many have participated in the calls to action on that subject. I guess few ALPA pilots are concerned about it. At least until their airline comes to the brink of being run through the courts again.
12-07-2015, 07:34 PM
#67
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
Originally Posted by oldmako
Fair enough.
I don't necessarily think we ought to dump it, I just don't think the MEC should send it out for a vote unless its a total home run. Unfortunately, I don't trust them to do that. I can easily see them forwarding a marginal agreement and then it being ratified after a month of fear mongering and sales jobs.
I don't think that if we shoot this down that it will take years for us to get out next contract. Most here do and we've beaten that to death so I won't belabor that point...unless of course someone posts something inaccurate and inflammatory.
Did you read that article you posted? Labor costs had virtually nothing to do with DAL scrapping that route. Even if everyone worked for free, govt subsidies will rule the day.
I don't necessarily think we ought to dump it, I just don't think the MEC should send it out for a vote unless its a total home run. Unfortunately, I don't trust them to do that. I can easily see them forwarding a marginal agreement and then it being ratified after a month of fear mongering and sales jobs.
I don't think that if we shoot this down that it will take years for us to get out next contract. Most here do and we've beaten that to death so I won't belabor that point...unless of course someone posts something inaccurate and inflammatory.
Did you read that article you posted? Labor costs had virtually nothing to do with DAL scrapping that route. Even if everyone worked for free, govt subsidies will rule the day.
I guess my point is, is that both the company's and the pilot's benefits are aligned with more ULH flying. The fact that JH actually maneuvered the company into giving us something (AIP stuff) for something that also benefits us, shocks the %$#@ of of me.
This is like going to the free time share sales job, take all the free stuff, and then they give you the time share for free.
This is a freebee, at least the way I see it. We want more ULH flying, more big airplanes, and more pilots on the property. The fact that JH pulled this AIP out of his ar$e is amazing.
I can't do the other forum. This one is about the most I can stomach.
12-07-2015, 07:50 PM
#69
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
Probe,
Wadr this isn't free. We are delaying any contractual gains other than the agreed pay raises for 2+ years.
Wadr this isn't free. We are delaying any contractual gains other than the agreed pay raises for 2+ years.
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