Airline Pilot Central Forums - C-171 CA Rep election

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Shoemaker was one of the biggest pieces of **** to ever wear a pilot's uniform, fortunately kharma smiled on him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePatroni (Post 2177285)

You are dead wrong about Prater. I flew with him regularly YEARS before he became the head of ALPA and it was clear as day that he firmly believed the age should change. His various positions at ALPA leading up to him running the show, in my opinion, was just filling the squares until he could finally get the change going ........he was anything but "happened to be there." There were hoards of CAL guys spending days on end in DC knocking on doors and talking to senators/congressmen, it was an extremely well organized effort that got pooh poohed by just about everyone. One of the ringleaders wormed his way into the training department when he turned sixty and then came back to the line when the age changed.

The whole thing was sickening.

We'll disagree on Prater's roll in the age 65 change. He was a figure head and got the spot as a gift to CAL pilots for returning to ALPA. I find it hard to believe that the board allowed Prater to go against the wishes of themselves and a clear membership majority. I think you guys are manufacturing some of this stuff. To what end, I don't know.

To be clear, Prater did absolutely nothing as ALPA president. I find it very hard to believe he was smart enough or had the long term planning skills or time to turn the government around on the age 65 ruling. There has been a lot written on this subject and I'm inclined to believe that over the conspiracies you've brought forward. The CAL guys are the only ones repeating the Prater story without laughing.

Just for the record, I'm for doing away with the age discrimination altogether. Allow all pilots ever on our seniority lists that were forced to retire because of age to return at their full seniority. The only limitation is their ability to pass the current medical and performance standards that current pilot are required to meet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadetdrivr (Post 2177340)

Yup. And it was a follow-up to the one put out several months ago.

Despite all that it appears a certain percentage of our group is totally prepared to believe what they want to hear despite hard facts to the contrary.

I used to think the preppers were crazy, preparing for doomsday and all that armagetten stuff. They may not be so crazy after all. We all know Obama wants to take our Guns and our Bibles, so best to just be prepared.

It's ok for ALPA to keep talking about it. If it's important then they can keep reinforcing their position on issue for the older more senile types, while simultaneously educating the newer pilots. Probably need to hear about it every 3 moths since we're doing so much hiring.

Consider it just good practice for their communications and PR people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenAllert (Post 2177346)

We'll disagree on Prater's roll in the age 65 change. He was a figure head and got the spot as a gift to CAL pilots for returning to ALPA. I find it hard to believe that the board allowed Prater to go against the wishes of themselves and a clear membership majority. I think you guys are manufacturing some of this stuff. To what end, I don't know.

To be clear, Prater did absolutely nothing as ALPA president. I find it very hard to believe he was smart enough or had the long term planning skills or time to turn the government around on the age 65 ruling. There has been a lot written on this subject and I'm inclined to believe that over the conspiracies you've brought forward. The CAL guys are the only one's repeating the Prater story without laughing.

Just for the record, I'm for doing away with the age discrimination altogether. Allow all pilots ever on our seniority lists that were forced to retire because of age to return at their full seniority. The only limitation is their ability to pass the current medical and performance standards that current pilot are required to meet.

You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. The board ABSOLUTELY let him go against the wishes of the membership or he wouldn't have gotten anywhere. The polling results were crystal clear, EVERY time they put one out. The kept obfuscating the questions until the results got close enough to say we need to do this.

I don't know who you were talking to but I routinely got asked, by friends at both UAL and DAL, what exactly was Prater trying to prove.

What exactly are you referring to by "a lot written on the subject?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenAllert (Post 2177346)

To be clear, Prater did absolutely nothing as ALPA president. I find it very hard to believe he was smart enough or had the long term planning skills or time to turn the government around on the age 65 ruling. There has been a lot written on this subject and I'm inclined to believe that over the conspiracies you've brought forward. The CAL guys are the only ones repeating the Prater story without laughing.

Just for the record, I'm for doing away with the age discrimination altogether. Allow all pilots ever on our seniority lists that were forced to retire because of age to return at their full seniority. The only limitation is their ability to pass the current medical and performance standards that current pilot are required to meet.

What age discrimation are you talking about? We don't have that in the airline business.

You can't be serious....No way we allow retired pilots to return with "full seniority." What does full seniority mean?

The CAL guys aren't the only ones repeating the Prater story without laughing. Well, you may be right there. Most are either laughing or crying. Do you know Prater's real goal? His ultimate goal was to be President of the AFL-CIO. That's what he really wanted to do. ALPA was just a stepping stone for him. I can give you Prater's number if you want it. Let him tell you all about it for a cigar and a steak at Charlie Palmer's.

Prater did allot of damage as ALPA President. He had no business being ALPA President after CAL just came back into ALPA and being from a scab airline and all. He just looked bad, and he looked bad doing it. He did allot of damage to the profession and to career progression, so I will disagree with you on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oletimer (Post 2177138)

we don't need to keep moving the goal posts, and there's no way to make it all equal. Everyone got hired under different decades, much less different contracts. We all didn't get hired on our 29th birthday the day after the Vietnam war ended. .

You hit the nail on the head. We can't keep moving the goal-posts.

-No way for everyone to get "equality" for a career.

Prior to age 65 passing, the AvErAgE pilot at CAL would get about 9 million for his/her career. Assuming a natural progression to wide-body Captain and assuming getting hired at approximately age 30.

I know the dollars have changed now due to inflation and the last contract, but maybe we should just give every pilot their 9 million dollars up-front when they get hired, so we can make it "equal" for everyone....... Once you work off the 9 million....You are officially retired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePatroni (Post 2177352)

Do you read any of the APLA publications, mailing and emails. Before we start to play that game, show where it is written that Prater had the political horsepower to get age 65 passed. I'm more inclined to go along with the PBGC not willing to go along with a decrease in age for full payout for pilots forced to retire at age 60 theory.

Just ask Prater. He is very proud of his accomplishment. It's not a secret or anything. He and his EVP "Lynch" they were really super-excited about this accomplishment. It was their equivalent of putting a man on the moon. In all seriousness, he popped champagne corks at ALPA that day.