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Old 02-12-2019, 07:58 AM   #241  
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Originally Posted by 767pilot View Post
You sound like it was demeaning to have to stand there to talk to a cargo company. It would have been fine to stand there for a passenger carrier, but a cargo carrier is not worthy of your time? I have no doubt that it sucked, but maybe you should rephrase that.
Giving the benefit of the doubt; I think he/she was just trying to say they were in line to speak with an airline without saying exactly who that airline was, that's just the way I read it. Potentially could have been worded better, but I tend to be the king of that -- just ask my wife.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:40 PM   #242  
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Originally Posted by 767pilot View Post
You sound like it was demeaning to have to stand there to talk to a cargo company. It would have been fine to stand there for a passenger carrier, but a cargo carrier is not worthy of your time? I have no doubt that it sucked, but maybe you should rephrase that.
I said that to not call out which company. Easy.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:44 PM   #243  
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Originally Posted by BrownDoubles View Post
Giving the benefit of the doubt; I think he/she was just trying to say they were in line to speak with an airline without saying exactly who that airline was, that's just the way I read it. Potentially could have been worded better, but I tend to be the king of that -- just ask my wife.
Thanks Brother. I could see how my wording may have given the reader that assumption after going back and reading my post again. The point of the post was that 30 plus individuals were standing in suits in below 50 degree weather outdoors and that you couldnít go to the lav without being accosted by cosmetic sales people. It wasnít the best job fair Iíve been to.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:47 PM   #244  
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Originally Posted by lear 31 pilot View Post
$490 for the chance of a multi million dollar career. I did it, got me on, the only Internal rec I have been able to help get on went to a job fair. Just saying donít let $490 get in your way of what you want, play the game no matter how ridiculous you may feel it is.
Maybe Kit Darby will have his Bentley parked out front. Again...
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Old 02-13-2019, 11:41 AM   #245  
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Honest question - why?
Honest answer probably not appropriate for a public forum especially in the light of last yearís memo-gate. Ē...second guessing investing my career here...,Ē speaks volumes on my opinion of the company. For the rest of this post Iíll address potential new hires (edit: and only focus on the employee experience):

The job experience, specific to being a union pilot at brown (and this is secondary to the previous paragraph), canít be stated better than, ĎBest job out there, working for the worst people imaginable,í kind of thing. Sure, punch your card, go home and donít think about the place until you have to come back and life will be all good - check. Problems arise when you go back...

Depending on who you are interacting with at the company, they either dislike, despise, or genuinely hate us. If you donít know why then you havenít done your homework but in summation: we are not UPSers, we are outsiders cutting the line into a highly compensated position without paying our dues, plain and simple. Thereís no sense of team here, no common goal, no pride in the the workplace, just independent workgroup-fiefdoms infighting - the only thing they have in common is a joint disdain for us. IMO on the company (air district) side of things, no one gives a ship, itís rare to see someone putting in effort to do a good job or taking pride in what they do, etc. In having to interact with all this, itís just becomes a generally negative, and at times, miserable experience. Not saying other airlines are all unicorns and rainbows, but itís exceptionally bad here - why subject oneself to multiple decades of it?

The other downside of brown is the strict division of union employees, called hourlies, with all other company positions. Basically, if youíre a motivated, ambitious individual with aspirations to do more than just fly the line during your career your options are limited to union work (if you can get it), a few instructor/training positions, or doing something on the side. Everything else requires forfeiture of your union membership - Itís not like delta where you have union line pilots jumping over and running the flight ops side of the airline. Here, itís all non union replacement pilots doing this stuff or better stated, making a mess of it all, so thereís essentially no options to progress, develop, expand, try something new, etc., youíre the fry guy and thatís all youíll ever be if you want to stay here - thatís the companyís attitude about it anyway. Professionally speaking, after years and years of resume improvement, I feel like Iíve largely come to the end of the road at this place.

Last, they just have no respect for the profession. For those who werenít around, a good example from not too long ago was when they postponed a newhire class at the last minute (just @ 2 weeks prior?). Who does that? Another example is how the security of your license is/can be unnecessarily vulnerable at this place. When $hit happens on the line, you are their scapegoat, the one lined up to be held liable for their mistakes - Theyíll vindictively self disclose things to the FAA or allow you to violate yourself as long as they get their boxes moved. Make a mistake, donít even remotely dream they will be on your side and/or protect you - theyíll help bury you to keep the focus away from them. Theyíll terminate comparatively loosely even if they know the union is sure to win the pilotís job back. Research the furlough, how it all went down - none of that character has changed. Yes, we got contract language in 2016 which will make it more painful for them to furlough in the future but they would do it all over again in the same way if given the chance.

Iíve never been with the, Ďdonít come here,í camp. You donít see me complaining or criticizing on here and Iíve tried not to do so on this post. I do believe UPS is a good gig for pilots but holy ship does it have its problems? Is everything else worth enduring these over a long career and can the company survive when times get tough down the road? Thatís what Iím questioning.

Last edited by FTv3; 02-13-2019 at 12:05 PM. Reason: flow & typos
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:05 PM   #246  
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Originally Posted by FTv3 View Post
Honest answer probably not appropriate for a public forum especially in the light of last yearís memo-gate. Ē...second guessing investing my career here...,Ē speaks volumes on my opinion of the company. For the rest of this post Iíll address potential new hires (edit: and only focus on the employee experience):

The job experience, specific to being a union pilot at brown (and this is secondary to the previous paragraph), canít be stated better than, ĎBest job out there, working for the worst people imaginable,í kind of thing. Sure, punch your card, go home and donít think about the place until you have to come back and life will be all good - check. Problems arise when you go back...

Depending on who you are interacting with at the company, they either dislike, despise, or genuinely hate us. If you donít know why then you havenít done your homework but in summation: we are not UPSers, we are outsiders cutting the line into a highly compensated position without paying our dues, plain and simple. Thereís no sense of team here, no common goal, no pride in the the workplace, just independent workgroup-fiefdoms infighting - the only thing they have in common is a joint disdain for us. IMO on the company (air district) side of things, no one gives a ship, itís rare to see someone putting in effort to do a good job or taking pride in what they do, etc. In having to interact with all this, itís just becomes a generally negative, and at times, miserable experience. Not saying other airlines are all unicorns and rainbows, but itís exceptionally bad here - why subject oneself to multiple decades of it?

The other downside of brown is the strict division of union employees, called hourlies, with all other company positions. Basically, if youíre a motivated, ambitious individual with aspirations to do more than just fly the line during your career your options are limited to union work (if you can get it), a few instructor/training positions, or doing something on the side. Everything else requires forfeiture of your union membership - Itís not like delta where you have union line pilots jumping over and running the flight ops side of the airline. Here, itís all non union replacement pilots doing this stuff or better stated, making a mess of it all, so thereís essentially no options to progress, develop, expand, try something new, etc., youíre the fry guy and thatís all youíll ever be if you want to stay here - thatís the companyís attitude about it anyway. Professionally speaking, after years and years of resume improvement, I feel like Iíve largely come to the end of the road at this place.

Last, they just have no respect for the profession. For those who werenít around, a good example from not too long ago was when they postponed a newhire class at the last minute (just @ 2 weeks prior?). Who does that? Another example is how the security of your license is/can be unnecessarily vulnerable at this place. When $hit happens on the line, you are their scapegoat, the one lined up to be held liable for their mistakes - Theyíll vindictively self disclose things to the FAA or allow you to violate yourself as long as they get their boxes moved. Make a mistake, donít even remotely dream they will be on your side and/or protect you - theyíll help bury you to keep they focus away from them. Theyíll terminate comparatively loosely even if they know the union is sure to win the pilotís job back. Research the furlough, how it all went down - none of that character has changed. Yes, we got contract language in 2016 which will make it more painful for them to furlough in the future but they would do it all over again in the same way if given the chance.

Iíve never been with the, Ďdonít come here,í camp. You donít see me complaining or criticizing on here and Iíve tried not to do so on this post. I do believe UPS is a good gig for pilots but holy ship does it have its problems? Is everything else worth enduring these over a long career and can the company survive when times get tough down the road? Thatís what Iím questioning.
Man, you are one bitter individual!! Holy cow.

The ďanswerĒ is most definitely not balloon and ponies or doom and gloom, IMO, definitely somewhere in the middle. I came from a ďworld classĒ organization, culture was very similar (unfortunately). I will admit my sample is very small, but not one FQS has treated me with disdain, hate, etc. The biggest negative connotation here, again IMO, is scheduling (just like my previous employer). Trades/requests get denied all the time just because. We have limited ability to control our schedule.

This operation is no different than my previous job, in the sense that they will do whatever it takes to move the plane. Heck, Southwest was/is having major issues with MX, whistleblowing activities. Here you better know your contract, what you can and canít do, it will go a long way in CYA.

But again, this place is most definitely not doom and gloom. But it ainít a ray of sunshine either. It is what you make it. If you are always negative, always criticizing, you will be especially miserable here.
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:18 PM   #247  
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Originally Posted by howardhughes8 View Post
Man, you are one bitter individual!! Holy cow.
disagree here. I donít feel bitter, just describing things as they are / appear. Remember this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTv3 View Post
Personally, Iíve had a great ride here, been treated fairly as an individual...The gig is still good....

Moving on:
Quote:
Originally Posted by howardhughes8 View Post
...but not one FQS has treated me with disdain, hate, etc.
I was implicating people mostly beyond FQS. Howard, meet Mary E. for example.... Fill out more event reports and pay attention to the resolutions. Every time you see a non browntail on the ramp is a giant middle finger from the company directly to you and your job!!! Even more so when you encounter an FQS!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by howardhughes8 View Post
But again, this place is most definitely not doom and gloom. But it ainít a ray of sunshine either.
Did I convey something different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by howardhughes8 View Post
It is what you make it. If you are always negative, always criticizing, you will be especially miserable here.
No disagreements.

Last edited by FTv3; 02-13-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:17 PM   #248  
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I haven't been here long, so my sample size is small. I ask every Captain I fly with if they regret being here or wish they were somewhere else. Not a single one has said they'd rather be flying for someone else. Sure, they say at their beach house, or skiing, or retired, but not working at another place.

There are crappy things about the job, sure, FTv3 mentioned a lot of them.

I'm enjoying my time here. YMMV.

Blue skies and good luck to the people who want to get here!
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:50 PM   #249  
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what FTv3 says is true.

that said, this job is what you make of it.

if you can ignore the BS (which in my opinion is easy to do), then it is a good place to work
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:11 PM   #250  
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Avoiding the B&G is a good first step toward personal/professional zen, though thatís where the Church of Expectation Zero was founded...
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