ANC 747 for Junior FOs
11-15-2018, 02:47 AM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 14
ANC 747 for Junior FOs
Hi Folks,
I am headed to the interview soon and if succesfull, I want to be prepared for the eventuality to go to ANC on the 74. So in case it happens I would like to ask a few questions regarding the lifestyle as a junior 74 ANC FO. I really appreciate the feedback. I have a few friends in UPS but all SDF based on the 75/76.
1. Can junior pilots hold any kind of RSV line with 14 days off in a row? If not what is the seniority to hold those?
2. What do Junior lines look like at the beginning? Is it possible to hold a line with 14 days off in a row? I will be commuting to the East Coast most likely so for me that would be better to commute only once per month!!
3. If you are commuting, can you usually get on a plane on your last duty day ( UPS or passenger airline) or most of the time it has to be on your first day off?
4. Is the International flying on the 74 mostly during the day or is there a fair share of night flying?
5. Are the trips mostly 3/4 pilots or 2 pilots? What is the rule at UPS to have extra crew for in flight relief?
6. Do 74 pilots sometimes feel tired/fatigued due to the constant jet lag combined with night flying?
Thanks a lot for any feedback. I am sure this post will also help a lot of potential new joiners.
I am headed to the interview soon and if succesfull, I want to be prepared for the eventuality to go to ANC on the 74. So in case it happens I would like to ask a few questions regarding the lifestyle as a junior 74 ANC FO. I really appreciate the feedback. I have a few friends in UPS but all SDF based on the 75/76.
1. Can junior pilots hold any kind of RSV line with 14 days off in a row? If not what is the seniority to hold those?
2. What do Junior lines look like at the beginning? Is it possible to hold a line with 14 days off in a row? I will be commuting to the East Coast most likely so for me that would be better to commute only once per month!!
3. If you are commuting, can you usually get on a plane on your last duty day ( UPS or passenger airline) or most of the time it has to be on your first day off?
4. Is the International flying on the 74 mostly during the day or is there a fair share of night flying?
5. Are the trips mostly 3/4 pilots or 2 pilots? What is the rule at UPS to have extra crew for in flight relief?
6. Do 74 pilots sometimes feel tired/fatigued due to the constant jet lag combined with night flying?
Thanks a lot for any feedback. I am sure this post will also help a lot of potential new joiners.
11-15-2018, 05:02 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Snapshot data Only Nov 2018 looking at Dec18/Jan19 info: 281 747 FO's. 35 hired in 2017, 76 hired to date in 2018 with 31 of them still in training.
170 Flying lines plus 13 more Lines to be made up of dropped trips from the 170 (Vacation/Training etc). 26 Reserve Lines (16 RSVA, 6 RSVB, 4 RSVD)
Different Reserve coverages times:
ANC RESERVE DAY DESIGNATION: 11MAR18 –04NOV18 05NOV18 – 10MAR19
“RSVA” 0730 – 1929 Local Domicile Time
“RSVB” 0300 – 1459 Local Domicile Time
“RSVC” 2015 – 0814 Local Domicile Time
“RSVD” 1545 – 0344 Local Domicile Time
A mix of each of these RSV lines.
Many combinations of work/off reserve days. Examples: 6 On/8off/8 On/6off; 7off/14on/7/off; 14on/14off; and more combinations across all reserve coverage's.
UPS works two 28 day blocks, 56 days total in a bid period.
1. Can junior pilots hold any kind of RSV line with 14 days off in a row? If not what is the seniority to hold those?
One of most junior FO did hold a 2 on/14off/14on/14off/12on block, it was their 192 choice.
2. What do Junior lines look like at the beginning? Is it possible to hold a line with 14 days off in a row? I will be commuting to the East Coast most likely so for me that would be better to commute only once per month!!
Possible, but ever changing dynamics, count a a few commutes a month and wont be disappointed.
3. If you are commuting, can you usually get on a plane on your last duty day ( UPS or passenger airline) or most of the time it has to be on your first day off?
Depends on arrival time, many catch outbounds in ANC to SDF after landing in morning, get into SDF past midnight, catch next UPS flight to east coast, arrive in Florida about 7 am local. A long day
4. Is the International flying on the 74 mostly during the day or is there a fair share of night flying?
Mix. Dark, then light, then dark again. International flying. 24 hour layover, repeat. Some straight day and then some all night. All a mix.
5. Are the trips mostly 3/4 pilots or 2 pilots? What is the rule at UPS to have extra crew for in flight relief?
Over 8 hours, 3 pilots (Standard is 1CPT/2FO) over 12 double crew (1/3 standard)
6. Do 74 pilots sometimes feel tired/fatigued due to the constant jet lag combined with night flying?
Most would honestly answer "Always" or "Often" to tired. If truly fatigued, need to be safe and call fatigued. Only fair to the other pilots and being safe. If a 24 hour rest cycle layover, will not get 2 proper sleep periods when back to the airplane.
Result: Tired flyers. Part of the job.
Try to find ability to rest to avoid fatigue. Sometimes events occur beyond ones control. Fire alarm in hotel during rest, staff knocking on door despite "Do Not Disturb", revisions to flying that keeps changing flying times.
Am sure will get more feedback. Standard caveats on info, may be off by a digit here and there (maybe 30 instead of 31 for example)
Mostly, good luck!!!
170 Flying lines plus 13 more Lines to be made up of dropped trips from the 170 (Vacation/Training etc). 26 Reserve Lines (16 RSVA, 6 RSVB, 4 RSVD)
Different Reserve coverages times:
ANC RESERVE DAY DESIGNATION: 11MAR18 –04NOV18 05NOV18 – 10MAR19
“RSVA” 0730 – 1929 Local Domicile Time
“RSVB” 0300 – 1459 Local Domicile Time
“RSVC” 2015 – 0814 Local Domicile Time
“RSVD” 1545 – 0344 Local Domicile Time
A mix of each of these RSV lines.
Many combinations of work/off reserve days. Examples: 6 On/8off/8 On/6off; 7off/14on/7/off; 14on/14off; and more combinations across all reserve coverage's.
UPS works two 28 day blocks, 56 days total in a bid period.
1. Can junior pilots hold any kind of RSV line with 14 days off in a row? If not what is the seniority to hold those?
One of most junior FO did hold a 2 on/14off/14on/14off/12on block, it was their 192 choice.
2. What do Junior lines look like at the beginning? Is it possible to hold a line with 14 days off in a row? I will be commuting to the East Coast most likely so for me that would be better to commute only once per month!!
Possible, but ever changing dynamics, count a a few commutes a month and wont be disappointed.
3. If you are commuting, can you usually get on a plane on your last duty day ( UPS or passenger airline) or most of the time it has to be on your first day off?
Depends on arrival time, many catch outbounds in ANC to SDF after landing in morning, get into SDF past midnight, catch next UPS flight to east coast, arrive in Florida about 7 am local. A long day
4. Is the International flying on the 74 mostly during the day or is there a fair share of night flying?
Mix. Dark, then light, then dark again. International flying. 24 hour layover, repeat. Some straight day and then some all night. All a mix.
5. Are the trips mostly 3/4 pilots or 2 pilots? What is the rule at UPS to have extra crew for in flight relief?
Over 8 hours, 3 pilots (Standard is 1CPT/2FO) over 12 double crew (1/3 standard)
6. Do 74 pilots sometimes feel tired/fatigued due to the constant jet lag combined with night flying?
Most would honestly answer "Always" or "Often" to tired. If truly fatigued, need to be safe and call fatigued. Only fair to the other pilots and being safe. If a 24 hour rest cycle layover, will not get 2 proper sleep periods when back to the airplane.
Result: Tired flyers. Part of the job.
Try to find ability to rest to avoid fatigue. Sometimes events occur beyond ones control. Fire alarm in hotel during rest, staff knocking on door despite "Do Not Disturb", revisions to flying that keeps changing flying times.
Am sure will get more feedback. Standard caveats on info, may be off by a digit here and there (maybe 30 instead of 31 for example)
Mostly, good luck!!!
12-04-2018, 03:58 PM
#4
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 49
Bluesideup24 and Salty Dog,
This is amazing info so thanks a ton! I got CJO last week for a Jan 4, 2019 class date and these are all questions I had but figured they'd have to wait for a start date to figure out. At least now I have a fighting chance at understanding what might happen. Bravo to you both!
Couple more Q's to throw out there:
For traveling to ANC, how many folks ride a brown-tail from SDF to ANC just prior to starting their leg or duty RSV out of ANC? I'm 5 hours drive to SDF (weather and traffic dependent) and driving might be my least intrusive option depending on my ability to do what I'm thinking. Otherwise, it's an all day affair to get to ANC on the airlines (and back). I'm really hoping that I can hold a 14/14 type schedule more often than not to lessen the pain for ANC base.
Also, for ANC pilots, roughly what percent get a crash pad vs getting a hotel room just for those days in ANC? How many days are folks typically sitting in ANC? How do ANC pilots find the crash pads and/or does UPS have a list of contacts and special rates for those opting to just purchase a hotel room in lieu of crash pad?
My assumption that I go heavy is based on the fact that i have 2000+ in the 744 and that 747 crew numbers are where UPS seems to be hurting the most, currently. So, I'm pretty much planning ANC 74 unless anyone else knows better. In which case, I'm all eyes and ears to learn.
This is amazing info so thanks a ton! I got CJO last week for a Jan 4, 2019 class date and these are all questions I had but figured they'd have to wait for a start date to figure out. At least now I have a fighting chance at understanding what might happen. Bravo to you both!
Couple more Q's to throw out there:
For traveling to ANC, how many folks ride a brown-tail from SDF to ANC just prior to starting their leg or duty RSV out of ANC? I'm 5 hours drive to SDF (weather and traffic dependent) and driving might be my least intrusive option depending on my ability to do what I'm thinking. Otherwise, it's an all day affair to get to ANC on the airlines (and back). I'm really hoping that I can hold a 14/14 type schedule more often than not to lessen the pain for ANC base.
Also, for ANC pilots, roughly what percent get a crash pad vs getting a hotel room just for those days in ANC? How many days are folks typically sitting in ANC? How do ANC pilots find the crash pads and/or does UPS have a list of contacts and special rates for those opting to just purchase a hotel room in lieu of crash pad?
My assumption that I go heavy is based on the fact that i have 2000+ in the 744 and that 747 crew numbers are where UPS seems to be hurting the most, currently. So, I'm pretty much planning ANC 74 unless anyone else knows better. In which case, I'm all eyes and ears to learn.
12-04-2018, 04:40 PM
#5
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by iflyme
Bluesideup24 and Salty Dog,
This is amazing info so thanks a ton! I got CJO last week for a Jan 4, 2019 class date and these are all questions I had but figured they'd have to wait for a start date to figure out. At least now I have a fighting chance at understanding what might happen. Bravo to you both!
Couple more Q's to throw out there:
For traveling to ANC, how many folks ride a brown-tail from SDF to ANC just prior to starting their leg or duty RSV out of ANC? I'm 5 hours drive to SDF (weather and traffic dependent) and driving might be my least intrusive option depending on my ability to do what I'm thinking. Otherwise, it's an all day affair to get to ANC on the airlines (and back). I'm really hoping that I can hold a 14/14 type schedule more often than not to lessen the pain for ANC base.
Also, for ANC pilots, roughly what percent get a crash pad vs getting a hotel room just for those days in ANC? How many days are folks typically sitting in ANC? How do ANC pilots find the crash pads and/or does UPS have a list of contacts and special rates for those opting to just purchase a hotel room in lieu of crash pad?
My assumption that I go heavy is based on the fact that i have 2000+ in the 744 and that 747 crew numbers are where UPS seems to be hurting the most, currently. So, I'm pretty much planning ANC 74 unless anyone else knows better. In which case, I'm all eyes and ears to learn.
This is amazing info so thanks a ton! I got CJO last week for a Jan 4, 2019 class date and these are all questions I had but figured they'd have to wait for a start date to figure out. At least now I have a fighting chance at understanding what might happen. Bravo to you both!
Couple more Q's to throw out there:
For traveling to ANC, how many folks ride a brown-tail from SDF to ANC just prior to starting their leg or duty RSV out of ANC? I'm 5 hours drive to SDF (weather and traffic dependent) and driving might be my least intrusive option depending on my ability to do what I'm thinking. Otherwise, it's an all day affair to get to ANC on the airlines (and back). I'm really hoping that I can hold a 14/14 type schedule more often than not to lessen the pain for ANC base.
Also, for ANC pilots, roughly what percent get a crash pad vs getting a hotel room just for those days in ANC? How many days are folks typically sitting in ANC? How do ANC pilots find the crash pads and/or does UPS have a list of contacts and special rates for those opting to just purchase a hotel room in lieu of crash pad?
My assumption that I go heavy is based on the fact that i have 2000+ in the 744 and that 747 crew numbers are where UPS seems to be hurting the most, currently. So, I'm pretty much planning ANC 74 unless anyone else knows better. In which case, I'm all eyes and ears to learn.
Disclaimer - I’m not ANC but have looked I to it extensively.
Crashpads - check the classified section of the bar and grill and also do a search for ANC hotel once you get on property. Don’t post there for at least 2 years unless you got a simple operationally oriented question. I don’t recall hearing of problems finding a place. Hotels with crew discounts exist but get pricey during tourist season.
Jumpseating right into flights in ANC isn’t popular (most outbound flights are long haul) and it seems most guys head up at least half a day early. You may be stuck in the cockpit jumpseat on your way up or on a 767 which means you aren’t going to get any quality sleep on the way. I believe we had a recent thread about this on these forums, try a search. EWR and Rockford are alternate options with flights to ANC. It’s not an easy commute from the east coast but not impossible. Buying tickets on the pax carriers isn’t uncommon. Coming back on company, for some reason, is noticeably easier. I think most jump straight out after their inbound flights.
Big problem with schedules up there is when they bring you back to base you have to get 48hr rest if the trip was 120hrs+ TAFB and even more rest if you were on double crewed flights so grouping pairings together in a nice big block is problematic when you are awarded shorter trips and are trying to trade things around.
Good news is that you should have a bunch of people coming in beneath you at a steady rate, also guys getting out of their seat lock will transfer back to the mainland as well as more senior guys looking at upgrades. Retirements, which are picking up, will help all that out as well. It might suck but grit your teeth and get through it then bid something in SDF. In the meantime, ANC is a great base, crews are cool, admin folks are genuine and the whale has a real coffee maker. Your biggest hurdle will be figuring out how to stow the catering.
Good luck and once again, welcome!!
Last edited by FTv3; 12-04-2018 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Clarification
12-05-2018, 02:36 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 767 captain
Posts: 2,696
I would not recommend jumping right into a reserve assignment, give yourself some more slack during the first year. I don't think any one thing has caused more guys to get sideways with the company here then being out of position while on reserve. The company doesn't care what your excuse is, if you don't live in anc you'd better make that fact transparent to them, unless of course your being in sdf helps them out. Come up the day before and have a drink or some salmon with the boys.
12-05-2018, 05:43 AM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by 767pilot
I would not recommend jumping right into a reserve assignment, give yourself some more slack during the first year. I don't think any one thing has caused more guys to get sideways with the company here then being out of position while on reserve. The company doesn't care what your excuse is, if you don't live in anc you'd better make that fact transparent to them, unless of course your being in sdf helps them out. Come up the day before and have a drink or some salmon with the boys.
I always went up 24/48 hours early while on probation.
(Since then I have transferred to SDF)
Multiple times while sitting on the jumpseat, we were told that operations is taking your airplane for another city, and giving you the broken one with a who knows what delay.....You really don't want to make that call to crew scheduling, at least during your 1st year
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