cougar

Prior to splitting the classes, some new hires struggled in training, needing extensive additional training, and a few are no longer with the company. After the split, these training issues have been reduced.

G550Guy

I’m not doubting your statement at all. I just personally find it hard to believe that ANY carrier who hires a 5000-7000 hour (I believe that’s the average) pilot would have training issues. At this point in your career, you have it or you don’t. Large aircraft are not difficult to fly. I came out of a G550 to the MD11 and myself and my training partner (also zero time in anything over 50,000lbs) had NO problems. We rolled right through. The young guns flying the CRJs these days have a more advanced FMS/glass setup than we do.

Honestly... What’s the difference between our 757 and 747 operation? Very little once you remove the International aspect. I don’t assume to be extremely knowledgeable about training programs and the current state of the industry, I’m 51 and on the downhill slide of my career... but I just don’t see how someone couldn’t handle the MD11, but the 757/767 with 3 engine types and 10+ weight limits is no problem.


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BoilerUP

I can see value in having new FOs with extensive international operations in a domicile that, for a decade, was the most junior in the left seat.

A new FO out of an RJ paired with a new CA who upgraded from SDF 757 or Bus, along with a recent hire flying supermid bizjets, *could* be at higher risk for errors than if each person had a lot of crossings under their belt.

That said, I don’t think either the airframes or operation are rocket surgery, and plenty of folks get little more than a IPC before blasting around the world in a Global or Gulfstream without issue.

CactusCrew

I don't doubt it either.

But seriously, how many "training issues have been reduced" ? 1, 5, 50 ??? Most likely no one has an actual number. There are so many other internal and external factors that could affect the number of training issues we have with new hires in any given year. But none of that supports the companies move.

Believe what you want. But to infer that training issues have been reduced solely due to the splitting of classes is naive and one-sided.

Prior to this contract, positions were assigned by management. Guess what ... some new hires struggled in training, needed extensive additional training, and a few are no longer with the company.

Its not a new problem. At least now they own the problem again by splitting the classes. At the expense of seniority and bidding rights.

FliFast

Hey Cactus!
It's been awhile since we visited our friend Jerry...the Sailor !
So, good news, the skies are safer now that I'm in the training center. With regard to the sub topic at hand, I've seen more success with new hires now that UPS is hiring based on background for the split classes. We do hire many that are already typed in the 747. So the hardest part as you might imagine is re-programming their callouts and procedures from their former employer to UPS. However, when I'm teaching systems, for example, I can say split system breaker or demand pumps and the newbies know what I'm talking about. There are still a few assigned to the 747 that need extra training, no doubt. But I've found this more common with newbies who are from non heavy jet backgrounds. If you're a newbie or transitioning from another fleet, I will tell you that if you feel you are overwhelmend or falling behind pull your instructor aside and ask for help. I can only speak for our fleet but the IPA sim techs and the management instructors will gladly take extra time to catch you back up. One of the biggest hinderences I feel to the 747 training program, is the lack of continuity. It is roughly a 31 day training event before OE that is averaging 120 to 140 days. It's hard to keep current on the material when you are home and also when the material is constantly changing as the fleet evolves to becoming more Boeing and more -8.

C.C, I've got some training in SDF in a few weeks.....we can visit our friend SailorJerry. AND ALSO, the sombrero in 603 on the tiger is mine...dont let Marc mess with it...see ya pal !

FF