JetBlue vs UPS
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 116
WRT OP’s question about leaving JB between years 1-3. First year I’d say it makes sense to bail from whoever to wherever you want. Year 3 on the other hand is trickier. If a B6 Pilot 3 years on property got the call from UPS to leave today they would be walking away from either being an A320 FO with some decent seniority making $150/hr to go make $46/hr but after 12 months $180/hr at Brown. I’d say you’d catch back up at Brown pretty darn quick unless that B6 pilot chose to stay and upgrade either on to the 190 or the 320 in a couple more years(190 upgrade around 2 years 2 months) that’s walking away from $200/hour on the 190 after 2ish years on property. After 3 more years at JB they could mostly like be a very junior 320 captain at $258/hr after 6 years versus leaving JB at year 3 then flying at Brown for 3 more years and being at $190ish/hr at Brown. Over the length of a career at Brown I think you’d make the difference up from leaving JB at year 3 eventually just depends if you want to sacrifice the short term for the long term. I think a lot of 3 year JB pilots intertested in playing the long game would choose UPS but maybe not a no brainier like it used to be once you are on property for 3 years.
I’m sure I’m over simplifying things but these are just my thoughts on the matter.
Last edited by SaturnV; 06-19-2019 at 07:58 AM.
#13
Keep in mind that once you make captain at UPS you no longer have a 12% DC B plan more like 8 or 9 since it stops at the federal limits. Also, the very nice A plan has to be renegotiated every contract (flat dollar amount) which means we are paying for it, buying it back from the company one way or another each contract cycle.
Maybe you can get a job on their airshow demo squad?
Just some things to consider.
Maybe you can get a job on their airshow demo squad?
Just some things to consider.
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 116
Keep in mind that once you make captain at UPS you no longer have a 12% DC B plan more like 8 or 9 since it stops at the federal limits. Also, the very nice A plan has to be renegotiated every contract (flat dollar amount) which means we are paying for it, buying it back from the company one way or another each contract cycle.
Maybe you can get a job on their airshow demo squad?
Just some things to consider.
Maybe you can get a job on their airshow demo squad?
Just some things to consider.
Didn’t realize UPS doesn’t have cash over cap for the high earners. That’s a bummer but I’m sure the blow is softened by having the A plan to look forward to.
Last edited by SaturnV; 06-19-2019 at 01:11 PM.
#15
Yes, the a plan is great to look forward to depending on what year you were born, there's more or less to be excited about. If you were born before or after a certain year (you can tell I was born after because I don't know what it was) you will get 40,000 less a year than the rest unless the company agrees to more in negotiations. This as the managers or team (of we have one) sit across the table from managers that have had theirs frozen.
#16
Not exactly
A terminating date for this pension plan is required, otherwise the company would have to fund the plan for the entire pilot groups estimated actuarial longevity. That would be a pretty big chunk of loose change (100s of millions?).
Instead, an end date is established and the continuation of the flat dollar benefit past the amendable date is covered in the "Letter of Agreement –Extending Pension Flat Dollar Formula Beyond Amendable Date" LOA found in the back of the contract. Here's the boiler plate language. I'd recommend reading the entire LOA instead of this boring snippet:
If a successor labor agreement is not ratified on or before December 31, 2023, the Company agrees to amend the plan by January 31, 2024, effective January 1, 2024, to provide that crewmembers that will attain age sixty (60) prior to December 31, 2026 may retire on or after attaining early retirement age and immediately commence drawing a benefit based on the better of the final average earnings formula or the applicable flat dollar formula. Such amendment also will provide that to the extent a crewmember covered under this provision began drawing a benefit prior to January 1, 2024,
(1) his benefit shall be recalculated, and
(2) no later than March 1, 2024, the plan will pay the crewmember a lump sum amount (subject to spousal consent as applicable) which is the difference between
i. the total amount that he would have received if his benefit payments had been paid based on the better of the final average earnings formula or the applicable flat dollar formula, and
ii. the total payments that he actually received, and
(3) no later than March 1, 2024, the plan will also pay the crewmember interest on the amount paid under paragraph (b)(2) above, at a rate of 7% per year, compounded annually.
#17
Nobody much seemed to care that FDA had to be renegotiated in 2016 in accordance with IRS/ERISA, lest defined benefit revert to 1% FAE...why do people seem to care now?
None of this is new...
A glance at our demographics and looming retirement wave should cement the reality that renegotiating FDA will be a top priority in upcoming negotiations.
None of this is new...
A glance at our demographics and looming retirement wave should cement the reality that renegotiating FDA will be a top priority in upcoming negotiations.
#18
No, people care very much but at that point, and the end of all other contracts, 1% equaled the flat dollar amount. Now it lags by 40,000 a year at the end making the flat dollar rate much more important than it was. Could have been fixed with 1.25% but couldn't sell the company on that one.
#19
Not exactly. The A Plan (Defined Benefit Plan) DOES have a contractual end date, but is not "renegotiated" each contract.
A terminating date for this pension plan is required, otherwise the company would have to fund the plan for the entire pilot groups estimated actuarial longevity. That would be a pretty big chunk of loose change (100s of millions?).
Instead, an end date is established and the continuation of the flat dollar benefit past the amendable date is covered in the "Letter of Agreement –Extending Pension Flat Dollar Formula Beyond Amendable Date" LOA found in the back of the contract. Here's the boiler plate language. I'd recommend reading the entire LOA instead of this boring snippet:
If a successor labor agreement is not ratified on or before December 31, 2023, the Company agrees to amend the plan by January 31, 2024, effective January 1, 2024, to provide that crewmembers that will attain age sixty (60) prior to December 31, 2026 may retire on or after attaining early retirement age and immediately commence drawing a benefit based on the better of the final average earnings formula or the applicable flat dollar formula. Such amendment also will provide that to the extent a crewmember covered under this provision began drawing a benefit prior to January 1, 2024,
(1) his benefit shall be recalculated, and
(2) no later than March 1, 2024, the plan will pay the crewmember a lump sum amount (subject to spousal consent as applicable) which is the difference between
i. the total amount that he would have received if his benefit payments had been paid based on the better of the final average earnings formula or the applicable flat dollar formula, and
ii. the total payments that he actually received, and
(3) no later than March 1, 2024, the plan will also pay the crewmember interest on the amount paid under paragraph (b)(2) above, at a rate of 7% per year, compounded annually.
A terminating date for this pension plan is required, otherwise the company would have to fund the plan for the entire pilot groups estimated actuarial longevity. That would be a pretty big chunk of loose change (100s of millions?).
Instead, an end date is established and the continuation of the flat dollar benefit past the amendable date is covered in the "Letter of Agreement –Extending Pension Flat Dollar Formula Beyond Amendable Date" LOA found in the back of the contract. Here's the boiler plate language. I'd recommend reading the entire LOA instead of this boring snippet:
If a successor labor agreement is not ratified on or before December 31, 2023, the Company agrees to amend the plan by January 31, 2024, effective January 1, 2024, to provide that crewmembers that will attain age sixty (60) prior to December 31, 2026 may retire on or after attaining early retirement age and immediately commence drawing a benefit based on the better of the final average earnings formula or the applicable flat dollar formula. Such amendment also will provide that to the extent a crewmember covered under this provision began drawing a benefit prior to January 1, 2024,
(1) his benefit shall be recalculated, and
(2) no later than March 1, 2024, the plan will pay the crewmember a lump sum amount (subject to spousal consent as applicable) which is the difference between
i. the total amount that he would have received if his benefit payments had been paid based on the better of the final average earnings formula or the applicable flat dollar formula, and
ii. the total payments that he actually received, and
(3) no later than March 1, 2024, the plan will also pay the crewmember interest on the amount paid under paragraph (b)(2) above, at a rate of 7% per year, compounded annually.
We could leave the table next time with a flat dollar or no flat dollar. Sounds like negotiating it's future continuation to me.
#20
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