SaltyDog

Every negotiation has tried to increase first year rate. Essentially, first year rate has been unchanged in 30 years except by inflation rate. So if hired 30, 20, 10, or this year, UPS ensures all enjoy same low first year spending power. They keep us all equal through out the ages. Was attempted to shift second year rate once negotiated (have to nail the pay first), then aggregate first and second year pay to boost year one pay (say 30k from year 2). Denied. Why? Because then the second year rate would be clearly out of line (say 30k less) with linear pay rate rise of year 3, year 4... Then UPS knows IPA would want that pay slope deviation fixed in subsequent negotiation. So denied. Not because it hasn't been tried every negotiation. Was achieved in a midterm agreement long ago, pilots voted the midterm down. Year two outstanding though.

Precontact

One reason may be that if someone leaves during their first year, UPS would be out less dollars by keeping first year pay low, when statistically folks would tend to leave as compared to later years.

BoilerUP

My preference is always “more pie”. I am acutely aware, however, that the company hasn’t been interested in baking more for probationary pilots in the past, regardless of the IPA’s efforts.

If there’d be a way to pull an arbitrary dollar amount from second year pay and apply that to first year pay without negatively impacting pilots already on second year pay, that would IMO be something to consider. I’m not certain how feasible negotiating a grandfather clause would be, though.

Another option would be taking some of the eventual new contract DOS raise percentage from 2nd year rates and applying those actual dollars to 1st year pay. Existing 2nd year pilots still would get a DOS raise, while first year pay would get a much-needed bump beyond the flat percentage.

For example and easy math, lets say DOS raise is 10%. $50.33/$192.01/$192.27 rates for the first three years on 1 Sept 20 would then become $55.36/$211.21/$211.50. Taking $10/hr from the DOS 2nd year rate and moving it to the 1st year rate would result in $65.36/$201.21/$211.50, giving the probationary rate a significant 29.87% increase. I have to believe that’d help first-year retention, too.

Again, I’d prefer “more pie”...and have no idea if the company would even entertain the above rumination.

Airbum

Ok, I think I understand the position. I will say I agree the issues with first year to second year pay are stated well by Salty, I think the IPA would soon have 2 year union members stating that there is a B scale for second year pilots and they would resent it. They would have no corporate knowledge of why they get paid a lower percentage at year two then the rest of the IPA pilots received in year two longevity.

The pay slope was rather large for years 1-6 before the 2006 contract and a MUCH contentious issue with lower longevity members. It was often stated that there was a hidden B scale that didn't go away till year 7.

I am all for increasing first year pay and don't need new hires to earn what I did as a new hire. The trick as always is how and how to avoid future issues.

tnkrdrvr

Having only been off first year pay for a few months, I agree it’s stupid low. However, I see this as the company’s problem, not the IPA’s. Low first year pay definitely hurts hiring quality and may hurt retention. I came here for the high pay (starting 2nd year) and great retirement, vacation, health insurance, etc. First year pay is an unproductive hazing of new guys that management seems unable to give up. If I were management I’d set first year pay at a similar premium to how our overall scale is set. The already long line of applicants would grow substantially in every metric management should care about.

navigatro

UPS management sees it this way:

1. we don't pay high wages first year, you have to prove yourself.

2. we are so great that UPS should be your first choice, despite paying lowest first year wages in the industry.

3. If you don't like it, take a hike.

howardhughes8

How many people don’t apply because of this? How many people actually leave during their first year because of this? The answers is pretty clear.

A very small quantity leave during first year, maybe a handful, and most if not all who do has nothing to do with $$$. A few realize Brown is not for them, the vast majority go to other jobs because it is truly where they want to be (Fedex, Delta, Southwest, etc).

As far as applicants, of course we may be missing some because of this, but again, our new hire quality has been excellent, I would even argue better than some Legacies who hire mostly younger, vastly less experienced folks, cookie cutter type mold. I would also argue Brown’s hiring demographics are probably the most diverse in the industry. As long as the job retains the benefits of today, first year pay will not be a substantial issue in the future, especially when you are hiring 20-30 month.

Airbum

I agree completely with the last couple of posts.

Thrust Hold

Then submit an update.

Icanhaz

From what I was told you need a company email address for them to verify your employment. Because management doesn't think we're worthy of a ups.com email address the numbers remain unchanged.

Has anyone actually tried?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk