UPS hiring quals
 

Is there anywhere people are posting general stats, flight hours, etc? Maybe I've missed it. Question is due to me hitting 1900tt, 1600pic, 500tpic, 1000 turbine in about 60 days and plan to apply once I knock the ATP out. I'm currently flying king air 350s for ISR. Just wondering if without 121, mil or cargo time, if I've got a chance.

i think non-mil guys flying king airs need about 8000+ hours to be competitive. yes I am serious.

I'm a retired military guy who ended up with a little over 4500 hours with about 3500 of that as PIC/Instructor/Evaluator on a heavy jet.... that being said, in my class, I was bottom third in terms of time. We had a guy in class with 10K plus hours. Take that for what it's worth. Good luck with your future endeavors.

I have a similar profile - I flew a King Air 350 for a long time to get the TPIC then went ACMI recently to get the heavy/intl 121 time. I am currently at roughly 4500 TT, 1200 TPIC, 1600 Turbine, Master's degree, etc. and in with an active app but still figure its a major long shot. I don't know that the King Air alone will be enough to have a shot without a ridiculous amount of flight time.

Good insight, thanks for the post and info.

Appreciate the reply, goals to shoot for from a relatable background. Thanks again.

I also followed a similar route. After King Airs I went the ACMI route to get the heavy/int'l jet time. In class now. There are a bunch of us here. Get your app in now, and update at the end of every year. Company notices how many applications you have had on file. Good luck!

I would update every month at a minimum, not every year. You’ll have to fill out a new app each January.

They do notice how often you update and the more you do it, the more they’ll appreciate it.

Has anyone heard of someone getting hired at UPS without a college degree? Currently captain with PSA with 9000+ hours and part 121 experience, but no college degree because I spent all my time flying. Are they still requiring it? Should I work on a college degree just to have it or work on check airman, simulator instructor, etc?


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I know two guys post 2014 hired without college degrees. Both were regional guys. One was AW, the other RPA. One was a Green Beret, the other in the training dept. However, they did have most of their credits. Do the math. Odds are overwhelmingly against you, but hey roll the dice. Or suck it up and get the degree that will meet every airline app that matters. Doesn't seem like much of a decision. If you have a really cool story as to why you don't it might work out.
So man up and join the Special Forces or get your online degree.

We absolutely have and continue to hire pilots without a bachelors degree. However, you have to stand out as a pilot. Having 9,000+ hours with no check airman or sim instructor time makes you look like a RJ guy who has been coasting for years. The guys who have no degree will be check airmen at multiple companies and probably have almost as much wide body international time as you have total. However, if you knock out a bachelor degree (doesn’t matter what, just accredited) and pick up a 747, 777, A380, or 767 type you will suddenly be competitive. Assuming you also grab the check airman title before leaving your current company. We do hire some guys straight from the regionals, but they have checked all the boxes (LCA, degree, etc).

Here’s the truth: UPS is the highest paying job in aviation. They have 30,000 applicants on file. Of that 30,000, they’re hiring ~250.
90% of folks hired are ACMI, from a major carrier or flying military. The other 10% are regional/corporate for “diversity” but they’ve had CP experience, etc. Most ppl I fly with who got hired here within the last 5 years went to “The Academy”, flew heavy international, served as CP or something similar...or all of the above. If you don’t fit the profile, the chances of getting hired are bafflingly low. If you really want it, get that degree AND heavy jet time. Do what it takes, take the pay cut, the QOL cut, whatever. Being in your comfort zone keeps the door shut.

Jeez, Bob, at least put some happy little trees in.

He speaks the truth!

This post is spot on. 2017 hire. Competitive civilian back then was 8000+ total of which 2500+ TPIC and heavy type/hours preferred. I was also working on a masters which was a nice addition to the app. That was when times were good and everyone was hiring.

😂 I realize that came off as pretty fatalistic but 80hrs of hotel quarantine will do that. I paint to hide the tears

Can the mods MAKE THIS a sticker, spot on.
I was hired in 19' and had over 6500TT, 2500TPIC, and 3 types.
Hella

Yup.
And I had 7500tt, 1000+tpic, five types, four years of heavy international, UND, masters degree, volunteer firefighter, three internal recs. “Active” for four years. Once even went “locked” for four months.
Never got a call.
I’m somewhere else now, wrong side of 40, and am happy. Would have loved the call, but even that wasn’t competitive enough. Went to OBAP and was flat out told, “Come back in about three years when you’re competitive.”

Didn't mean to suggest that you were wrong, Rob. I can't believe they hired me, and I had 9000+ hours, Boeing type ratings, etc. Still feel like I hit the lottery. But you're scaring the children.

PS. There was a 26 year old regional guy in my class. Just one out of 25ish, and I think the other ~24 checked all or most of the aforementioned boxes, plus he was a local yokel and I'm guessing he had a LOT of pull happening on the inside, but you can't win if you don't play.

Yeah. Bachelors in aviation, USAF heavy instructor pilot, 7,000 hrs with 2,000 heavy PIC, cargo 121 ACMI experience, no skeletons, spent years and years and thousands of dollars chasing the job. Then you meet the 26 year old that was flight instructing literally 2 years ago. I won’t play the game anymore.

[QUOTE=CardboardCutout;3236850]Didn't mean to suggest that you were wrong, Rob. I can't believe they hired me, and I had 9000+ hours, Boeing type ratings, etc. Still feel like I hit the lottery. But you're scaring the children.

PS. There was a 26 year old regional guy in my class. Just one out of 25ish, and I think the other ~24 checked all or most of the aforementioned boxes, plus he was a local yokel and I'm guessing he had a LOT of pull happening on the inside, but you can't win if you don't play.[/QUOTE

you must understand that person is the exception, not the norm. Coddling the masses leads to disappointment. I worked my a** off for years trying to get here and did what it took to check the boxes, even though it meant sacrificing a comfortable life for years (as I know so many of us did) . Kudos to that person for being the .0000001% who got here at such a young age- that is freakin awesome but please understand that story is not the norm. I find that realism is far more helpful that idealism. It gives people a tangible road to reach their goal.

Apparently the app pull is random so it’s a tough proposition to get the call no matter how qualified you are. Just keep plugging away and when things return to normal hopefully attend a job fair or two.

Didn't mean to suggest otherwise, and I take your point. I guess my point was just "update often", because everything helps, but you're absolutely right that it's a very rare bear indeed who gets through the door at 26. Hell, I think 36 was still WELL below the average age in my class.

And hey, at least you get time to perm your hair in those HKG hotel rooms. Look on the bright side! Happy trees!

And hey, at least you get time to perm your hair in those HKG hotel rooms. Look on the bright side! Happy trees![/QUOTE]

“Go out on a limb — that’s where the fruit is.”
The Real Bob Ross

“Make love to the canvas.”
Also the Real Bob Ross

I mean, you're locked in a tiny room for 24 hours, you can only do so many pushups.

You guys referring to the young man that was hired a couple of years ago? From what I heard he is pretty badass - starting flying before he could walk type of thing. Believe he was an instructor at the regionals when hired at UPS.

Eitherway, drop the entitlement card. I got the same sob story for Delta. Nothing’s fair in aviation.

That guy is an example of what can happen when you are focused exclusively on getting to a career destination to the exclusion of all else. As you noted, it’s a bit more common at Delta and some of the other big pax haulers. However, I think that’s purely because they hire more total bodies. He did have “card” to play, but his biggest one was that he simply checked all the boxes far faster than most. He was never going to be a 9,000 hr RJ pilot who had never been a LCA or school house instructor. The guy never rested on his laurels and waited for a phone call.

All that said, I wouldn’t want his life. Financially, he will crush it due to his timing and age he started. However, this job gets real boring, real fast. I wouldn’t trade the 20 years I spent flying for Uncle Sam for 20 more years here. I enjoyed having something to do between takeoff and landing. I will still retire from Brown very financially secure with no worries other than griping about how Uncle Sam is taking too much.

Personal belief, which is admittedly speculative and not necessarily supported by any definitive facst:

We hire comparatively few regional pilots because the bulk of regional pilots are targeting the three traditional legacies. They know the nature of flying, the airports, the self-loading freight experience. UPS, FDX and SWA are generally less desired by a significant portion of these potential hires than DAL, UAL and AAL - at least in the circles of my friends and acquaintances. A large number of regional pilots hired here, besides their strong resumes as LCA/TCE/instructors/management/etc., also have other connections - from the SDF area and well networked, parents or siblings are current or retired pilots here, former co-ops/interns, etc. The number of former Chautauqua/Republic folks hired is an example.

Where there's a will, there's a way...and this can be seen from the constant (admittedly small) number of bizav pilots hired...most have CP, DO, DoT, etc. type experience instead of simply being "just a pilot".

ACMI pilots, on the other hand, are essentially turnkey having experience flying similar aircraft into similar airports at similar times of day. They know how this industry works, its pros and cons, and want to keep doing it.

I actually like this aspect of it. I like boring, uneventful days at work in aviation. I’ll take boring over stressful any day of the week. We do have to battle complacency when things get routine, but I’d rather battle complacency than battle stress-related health problems.

The fact that this job was so hard to get, makes me appreciate it even more! I don't think I'd be 100% happy at any job. Ya know, SOSDD? I really appreciate the OGs that came to this job when it was meh, and made it into what it is today.

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Lots of heavy lifting was done by the FOg’s. Our time will come soon enough...

Didn’t mean for that to sound entitled. I’m quite happy where I am. The highest tier places such as UPS can take an incredible amount of determination, persistence, and maybe some luck to break into. Just depends on how the scales balance out and how long you can practically keep it up.

Timing. Main reason I’m here is because I got my app in the day they opened the window back in 2014. Still held my own in quals and time (I think all of us regional guys were 10K hrs+ back then) but far fewer applicants to contend with.

All of us hired prior to Covid hitting came on board in a different time. Back then UPS knew that well qualified applicants were as likely to get a CJO at Delta, United, FedEx, etc as they were to accept a job here. We were one of several “good deals” available. Since Covid hit, the company has been able to be high handed and choosy. They know that FedEx is the only other game in town and, given the sheer volume of highly qualified applicants far exceeds UPS/FedEx’s hiring needs, therefore they can be how they always want to be. I’ve only managed to get one guy I’ve rec’d hired in the past year. Previously, they probably would all be on property by now with their resumes. It’s frustrating, especially for those on the outside looking in. Hopefully, the pax haulers reopening hiring makes it a bit easier to get your application looked at by UPS. Good luck to everyone

Well in my heavy class I had the least hours of all my batch mates (non military ). 12000+ with 4000+ PIC on 777. Had to wait for a year before the call, it was worth the wait. Don’t lose hope guys, it’s not perfect but it’s one of the best jobs out there!

Awesome stuff Triple.... I am roughly the same quals as you. Hoping for the call

747 and 777 types
9000hrs heavy, of which 5000 is pic
Bachelors with Graduate level certification
15000TT
4 internal recs

Did the online job fairs even chatted for 3 secs with Stephanie. Fingers crossed

Dang. Reading all this makes me think I’m in no way qualified to get hired at Brown. And I’m a UPS Captain. 😂.

I do think it’s very much the luck of the draw. I was very fortunate. Regional guy, didn’t know anyone, 4500tt, nothing extra like check airman, etc. Applied, went to a Kit Darby job fair, laughed at (pretty much) by a NURP, got a call for an interview the next week, interviewed, in the pool, called about a week later for a class the following month. This job is like the lottery, you can’t win if you don’t play (apply). Don’t stress about these posts. The fact is, it’ll work out...or it won’t. There’s lots of great jobs in aviation and this is only one of them. The 1 thing that this job has better than anywhere else is the IPA. Most incredible union ever. So if you’re lucky enough to get the call, know that you’re joining the best pilot group there is.

^^^He’s right you know.