flyphisher

Sorry Archie. I disagree with about everything you said. I believe unity is the only tool because it is UPS. Not Delta. And I believe vests and lanyards were a huge indicator of our resolve. And both sides were watching.

I don't believe, and I have much more faith in the IPA membership than I do most (all) pilot groups, I don't believe we have the resolve to take on UPS. UPS is not Delta.

The strike vote, while critical in the process, is not the Holy Grail of the real deal. It's a vote without immediate consequences. Completely part of the necessary process....but when real dollars start getting yanked out of families mouths....??? I don't know that we fare any better than any other pilot group.

We've been extremely good as a group on "taking care of our own". And nobody can take that away from us. I'm glad it was left at that.

UPS knows exactly where we are as a group. We show them every day. And yes they watch. Every day.

With UPS in particular, the only leverage you have is UPS 100% believing, at the negotiations table, that the membership believe in the IPA negotiators equally 100%. Self help, with UPS in particular, at this stage in our economy and UPS' political clout in Washington, is pie in the sky thinking.

UPS is not Delta. And I'm not your buddy. I don't know you.

Archie Bunker

Vests and lanyards again? Yes, I'm sure that UPS management was shaking in their collective wingtips because we were wearing yellow vests with an IPA logo, and an orange lanyard stating "The time is now." Sorry, but we can just agree to disagree on that one.

Excuse me...we don't have the resolve to take on UPS? What do you call a greater than 99% vote to strike? That's not resolve? That's not unity? If the strike vote doesn't demonstrate unity and resolve, then I don't know what does. The strike vote spoke volumes more to the company, in a language that they understand, than any lanyards and vests that we wore.

The strike vote was a huge, quantifiable indicator of where were stood as a labor group. It sent a very strong message to UPS. The rest of your statement doesn't speak very well of the faith you have in your fellow union brothers and sisters. In fact, it contradicts everything you said about our unity. I happen to think that a vast majority of our group would have stood their ground, and never crossed a picket line.

Tell me this...if there is absolutely no threat of a strike in the negotiators hip pocket, what incentive does the company have to bargain in good faith? They're going to bargain in good faith because we the membership "believe in the IPA negotiators?" You saw live, and in living color for the last 5 years how well the company bargained in good faith. We were unified as a group...so how well did that work out for us?

The second that the Chairman of the NMB told the company to make a real offer, or else he would release us, the company changed their tune. They changed their tune because of the possibility of a work disruption looming in the not too distant future. Nobody in the business world likes talk of a work disruption...management doesn't like it, the stockholders don't like it, and Wall Street doesn't like it. It doesn't matter if you don't think it would ever happen, the mere threat of a strike can cause the stock price of a company to tank. UPS definitely doesn't want that.

If this is "pie in the sky" thinking, and there was no way we were going to be released, why did UPS all of a sudden increase their offer by over 30% by the end of the week, when in the previous 5 years, we accomplished none of that?

That's right. We can agree to disagree on a lot.

flyphisher

UPS does not bargain in good faith. Ever. And hold all the cards. Their (paid) time with the NMB was up. The NMB did what UPS wanted for as long as they could and then said its time. Then things went as they did. But I don't believe based on the threat of a work stoppage. I believe based on their time was up.

There's good. There's bad. And there's evil. I know where UPS falls WRT labor negotiations. Take any company with their shenanigans and times it by a huge number to get to where UPS breathes.

That's why IMHO negotiations only started when UPS wanted them to start....which was the last three weeks. When (possibly) the NMB said enough. Then and only then do things have meaning at the negotiations table. And if UPS thought for one minute that they could throw us a meager bone and the EB would -00% endorse it, they would have. But IMHO the belief that UPS had in the membership enough to vote down a contract not 100% endorsed by the EB is where the rubber met the road. That unity is what carried the day. Not the threat of a strike.

In short, IMHO, this was all pre-ordained. All the players knew the game and we're just waiting for the meter to run out on UPS' parking space in the NMB lobby. Then the NMB has nowhere to turn but to admit failure. And when it comes down to the NMB or UPS? It's going to be the NMB. So UPS throws the money (again pre-ordained), allowing the NMB to have their political plausible deniability and we are now in a corner. Because it's 2 against 1. And always was. And the NMB, in the whole pre-orchestration, has just given last call. The NMB has their out and UPS got what they wanted. To delay as long as possible. UPS could care less about the money. It's the control.

If you think the NMB, UPS, or our EB believe that 99.67% strike vote is 100% accurate, think again. It is a show of unity. But it is saber rattling and a necessary part of the process. And 99.67% is a good showing. We did the right thing. Just as a 40% yes strike vote would be devastating.

I don't know if you are seeing what I'm trying to say or not. I'm certainly not against the IPA membership. And I wasn't there for negotiations. But I believe what I believe and it might be different from what you believe no matter how much electronic ink is wasted. Resulting in the agree to disagree.

Let's hope that come next contract we show more resolve in ACTUAL actions. Not just voting yes to strike. That takes no effort.

VnavPath

Anyone have any info on the UPS Hogan?

RemoveB4flght

Good Evening all, Have an interview coming up in a few weeks and was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to share some info or recent experiences. I've done a bit of reading through this forum, but many of the hiring topics have had a bit of 'thread creep', however it's also been interesting to get information on the state of the union so to speak, so not wanting to disparage that in any way.

PMs ok as well, thanks in advance

Undaunted

I'm also interested in recent interview info if anyone can PM me. This looks like a great time to get on with UPS!

Whaledrivr

If offered a "manager" position, do NOT take it!!!
By definition they are not a manager:
"A person who has control or direction of a institution or business; a person who controls or manipulates resources and expenditures"
Non Union Replacement Pilots (NURP) at UPS are not managers, they are robots who are told what to do, have no ability to control or manipulate the company and have no union protection. Just as with the Teamster strike in 1997, they ALL flew strike goods across union picket lines=SCAB.
A "manager" position @ UPS is not a respected position here.
**NEVER accept a non union pilot position @ UPS!!

vano

concerning new hires, what background is prevailing, aside from military?

regional
foreign carriers (US pilots)
part 135
majors
AMI