Sell a house? Sell your cars?? C'mon, aren't you being a little bit melodramatic?

No offense but everyone coming here knows what the first year pay is. Wish it was higher - but it isn't.
Some people advocate "leveling" the first 2 years' pay, in other words make more during year 1 and less during year 2.
Well, I did just that on my own and know several people in my class who did the same. Every month I'd receive a '0% for 12 months' balance transfer offer from several of my credit cards (and I still do receive similar offers, bet you do too).

About 3 months after getting hired I took a $20K transfer offer which was deposited into my checking account within a week or so. I paid minimum payments until my second year pay kicked in and then paid off the balance before the 12-months deadline. Didn't have to sell a house or a car. ..and I drank red wine from a real bottle. ;)

The bottom line is that we all agree on first year pay being too low. However, it's not as impossible to live on it as some make it out to be and no one should ever turn down brown simply because of the 1st year pay. It simply makes no sense.

Good point Salty.

My argument was that IPA didn't have a whole lot of leverage with the company when it comes to 1st year pay rates. However, you're absolutely correct on them being members!

I guess each person has to decide if they think they should go into debt to take a job. Being debt free (except for mortgage) and being single income with a family of 4, I'm not interested in taking out a loan for the privilege of employment. On probation, I would have no protection against the possibility of getting fired for any reason then being on the street with $20K+ in debt and no job.

Fair enough KME and to be clear, yes, I wish our first year pay was significantly higher! However, for years and years it was $28K and back then people had families, kids, mortgages, etc. just like they do now. This is nothing new.
In fact, one could say that the current 1st year pay is significantly higher than just a decade or so ago.

According to this inflation calculator $28,000 in 2005 dollars equals $35,094.77 in 2017 dollars. So almost $10,000 less than what new hires get today.. (converted to 2017 $s)
No matter what number you settle on there will always be those who say it's too low.

So while I applaud you for knowing what your personal limits are I still contend that no one should ever plan his or her future based on the probationary pay.

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2017

Since there is no shortage of applicants, I can understand why your company would not want to increse pay for newbies. I think it is a Union issue that needs to be negotiated. Unfortunately, it sounds like the Union is not interested in negotiating it and popular opinion is for people to suck it up. Sad.

Ahhh, the old "I put up with it, so so should you!" argument. Not an excuse. Look at it this way: We all have an interest in attracting the best quality people to this place because they're who we're going to have to work with until we retire. $35-$40K a year will turn some (maybe many) good candidates away in the current hiring environment. It is in our interest to fix this in the next contract.

What's sad are your baseless "it sounds like the union is not interested" accusations.

You have a very selective view of what I wrote.

The main premise of my post was that a brown wannabe should try to find a way to make the first year pay work because it pays off in the long run. Period. It's low and we all know it. However, don't let the first year pay dictate your future. That was true in 1998, 2005 and still is in 2017. That was my only point.

The dollar figures were mentioned simply to show that the first year pay is actually higher now than it was a decade ago. That's a fact. I never said I was happy with those numbers, read my post again because I was very clear about that, I simply brought up the fact that the pay has actually improved from what it used to be, once again, a fact. You are the one who chose to put words in my mouth.

2017 UPS Hiring
 

As I mentioned upthread, the IPA attempted to negotiate higher pay for first-year pilots beyond the 14.65% DOS raise everybody got; UPS wasn't interested in doing so. UPS also wasn't interested in slightly lowering the 2nd year rate to increase the first year rate (which would cost NO money, and actually save them a little in second year defined contribution payments).

Put another way, here is a quote I was told over a decade ago by a UPS manager: "Second year pay-on is what the IPA can negotiate, first year pay is what UPS thinks you are worth."

They probably think 1st year pay is too much ;)

:D