Turbinebound

Ok..so.. Im trying to go to Thailand to visit some family and I have Delta benefits. The flights look good on delta to just do the standard non-rev routine to get over there. My main concern is coming home. The flights look tight and so I'm considering purchasing a ZED fare in case I dont make it on Delta and I have to go on an Asian carrier. I know where and how to buy ZED fares but what kind do I need and what do they need to say. Im trying to go from Thailand to anywhere in the US, and I might have to connect through somewhere in Korea or China, on an Asian carrier, if all the flights through Tokyo are full. So Im looking for advise on how to get home from Thailand using ZED's. Thanks guys

iaflyer

Well, as I understand it, you're going to have to buy a separate Zed ticket for each route and each airline. They are all refundable but you have to pay for them upfront.

You (or your PPR) will have to go to the airport and buy one from Bangkok to SFO on United. (for example, don't know if they actually go there) Then another on Thai for Bangkok to SFO, etc.

BigGuns

Check that... I am not sure you are right. I just used an AA ZED on UAL. The ual agent said (and I later verified this in deltanet) that you only need the city pair and any that is in ZED will take that route ticket. Now it never hurts to get one on every airline since they are refundable.

Sniper

Zed's are for 'zones' -they are not airline or route specific. They are only zone and price specific.

Essentially, you buy a zed ticket that is good on any airline that will accept them. The further apart the 2 zones are, the more the Zed costs. Each zed comes in ZL, ZM, and ZH (L=low, M=medium, and H=high). The higher the zed, the higher the cost.

So, 3 issues for the user:
1) what zed has the airline you're planning to use negotiated with your carrier, and who are you (employee, spouse, child dependent, domestic partner, retiree, or registered guest)? Say United and Air China both fly Shanghai to LAX. Say you're a Air USA pilot. Well, Air USA has negotiated unlimited ZL for employees and ZM for dependents and parents with United, but ZH for employees (limited to 8 only) and no zeds for anyone else on Air China. So, on Air China, you can go, but nobody else can. On United, your family can go with you.

So, you've got the right zed fare. Now, issue 2, the zones:
2) The world is divided into zones. The further you go, the more zones. So, again, you're an Air USA pilot in Shanghai - how many zones did you pay for? Say it's 5 zones to go from Shanghai to LAX. It's 7 zones to go from Shanghai to IAD. If you've bought a 5 zone ticket, you can't get on the IAD flight, and only can go to an airport within 5 zones, say LAX, SFO, or Dubai, for instance). If you've got a 7 zone, you can go to IAD, or anywhere else within the 7 zones or less, including LAX, ORD, JFK, or DFW.

3) cashing them in. If you buy 1 ZH (high cost) for 7 zones, that can take you all the way from Shanghai to the US East coast on any airline (in my example). It can also take you from Shanghai-LAX, or even BOS-LGA. But once you 'cash it in' by giving it to an agent, you can't really get it back. So, say you're in Shanghai again. There's a United flight to Tokyo which looks iffy, but the loads are good on United to both LAX and IAD from Tokyo. If you've only got 1 '7 zone ZH', you can't split it into 2, one for the Tokyo flight and one for the LAX flight. Furthermore, once you 'list' for the UA flight, you are essentially stuck on UA. If you miss that UA flight, you can't easily get that '7 zone ZH' back from UA and go use it on Air China. So don't give it up unless you're sure you're gonna' get on.

So, the prudent zed traveler buys a couple based on what the flights look like. For 'family in Bankok': (note, the zone #'s I'm using and the ZL,ZM, or ZH I'm using are all hypothetical. Check to find the correct amount of Zones you need, and check with Delta to find out what Zed agreements they have with the various carriers you might use, such as Korean, ANA, Japan Air, Thai Air, Cathay, Singapore, etc). Maybe a 8 zone ZH for that Bankok-anywhere in the US flight so that you're good to go if you need it. Maybe a 6 zone ZM to go direct from Bangkok-LAX on the carrier that takes ZM's with Delta (why pay the ZH price when all you need is a ZM). Maybe a 3 zone ZL to go on XYZ Airlines to Singapore, Hong Kong or Tokyo (2 zones) or Seoul (3 zones, which is why you buy the 3, so you can use it to Seoul OR Tokyo/Singapore/Hong Kong), then a 6 zone ZL from Singapore/Tokyo/Hong Kong or Seoul (Tokyo/Hong Kong only needs 5 say, but again, you buy 6 so you can use it from Seoul/Singapore OR Tokyo/Hong Kong) to get you back to the USA on United if your airline's flight from Tokyo (which you plan to non-rev on) suddenly oversells. If you have enough $ to buy separate zeds for Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore and Tokyo (likely different zones) than that would be even better, but most guys can't carry a couple grand in zeds, even if they are refundable, so they buy less, and pay for the 'worst case' scenarios (Seoul to NYC or a ZH direct to NYC or anywhere else in the US from anywhere in Asia) rather than the best case (ZL to Tokyo/Hong Kong, another ZL to LAX or SFO).

When you get back, you refund all the zeds you didn't use.

Most counter agents don't know zeds in the US. Either buy them @ an employee travel office in the hub, or internationally, where most of the agents know zeds better b/c they deal with them more often (just don't ask them about jumpseating!).

Sorry for the length. Good luck.

German Herman

well... good responses, and theoretically true, but it has worked slightly different for me in the past.
The way SIPER described ZEDs is how it is supposed to work. One ZED ticket should take you from any airport on any airline through a certain amount of zones. Unfortunately, in Europe (in my multiple experiences) a ZED ticket will only get you from a specific airport to a specific destination on any carrier of your choosing. Even when I tried to fly a shorter distance to a different destination on the same airline my ticket was issued for, they wouldn't accept my ticket. So in the past I find multiple ways home from an airport with the most international flights to any destination in the USA, buy multiple tickets, take any flight I can get, and try to get home from within the States, wherever I might end up.
On a side note, jumpseating (on a US carrier) is not really an issue in my experience (Europe and South America). It takes some explaining and persistence but never got denied in the end...show up early and insist on jumpseating without telling them you have ZED tickets unless everything fails (they will try to have you use those tickets, because it's easier for them, but more expensive for you).
Good luck...and have fun!!!

Metopower

I can only second that. In Europe and the Far East they are very reluctant to help you as a non-rev. If you have a ZED ticket to a certain destination, it can be valid on several airlines, that’s fine. But if you want to change your destination, even if it’s within the same zone, they want to see exactly that ticket (which you don’t have). Make sure you have all the tickets required. As said before, they are reimbursable, but you may pay a service charge (10 Euros per ticket at my airline).

It’s a shame, how we treat each other in Europe, but it probable has to do with jealousy, which is the base of socialism. Have a good trip.

Sniper

Interesting. I've used a Zed from London Gatwick to Denver multiple times to go from Heathrow to BOS, JFK, and MIA.

I wonder whether this is a case of 'the gate agent doesn't know how zeds work' (similar to 'the gate agent doesn't understand jumpseating' here in the US), or maybe I've just been lucky. Seems a shame to have a ticket good for all airports within a zone, and be stymied by agent ignorance.

I guess I'll have more zeds next time I travel using them, and I'd reluctantly suggest that 'Turbinebound' do the same, given what others are saying.

ZDub

Or is it possible that you didn't have it right?

Sniper

Sure it is. Do you actually have information suggesting that my information is incorrect?

My Zed information provided by the corporate travel department says:

Under the ZED agreements, tickets can be endorsed to and accepted by any ZED carrier for fares within the same zone or within a lower zone for different city pairs. No refund will be made if accepted for travel at a lower ZED fare.

I guess I hit a nerve with that 'agent ignorance' post, huh?

ZDub

Blast! You've sniffed me out!! Once again, my past catches up with me! I find more often than not, and I'm sure you've experienced this at some point(s) as well, it's typically more apathy than actual ignorance. Although, on a case by case basis, if the shoe fits....

Zeds are crazy anmials sometimes, and I've found on occasion as both the user and acceptor, that the issuing airline's information conflicts with what the transporting airline's information states. Might be a case of systems not being updated in a timely manner, or maybe someone didn't get a memo, who knows, but it can and does happen. But, at the end of the day, your agreement is your agreement, so stand your ground. Judging by that avitar, I'd say you'll make a convincing argument!