How to annoy your FO
08-22-2014, 06:57 AM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin
That's an EASY one. First time he makes an uncommanded configuration change or flight control input you throw your hands in the air and say "Your airplane Captain".
I'm more of a believer in the thick skin approach to these things. I'll waste a little more fuel than I would otherwise have burned if the other pilot is obviously fidgety about the config even though I know its going well. I hate dragging it in, but I'd rather do that than shut the other pilot out of it and potentially set up an IGYYSOB situation. However if I then get lectured as to why I messed up when I didn't, then there's going to be some learning that occurs with one of us.
08-22-2014, 07:33 AM
#152
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767A
Posts: 791
Originally Posted by HighTailN2Pipes
Captain (PNF, 25 miles out on visual approach): "You ready for Flaps 1?"
FO (PF): "uhhh..no. Was planning on descending clean at 250 and then decelerating at the little purple "D" on the map screen".
Captain: "I'm a real advocate of using the slats. I mean, do you want to be on the bare edge of a stall this close to the ground?"
FO: "Dude, Vls is 190. Green dot (L/D Max) is 221, clean speeds. How is 250 the bare edge of a stall?"
Captain: (Suddenly without warning, extends slats and calls "FLAPS 1").
FO:"...."
(Time passes)
Capt (10 miles out level at GS intercept altitude of 3600 ft, driving in on the localizer at CONFIG 1 at 190 knots): "You ready for Flaps 2?"
FO: "No, actually I was going to wait till a couple miles out from intercept, slow to 180 and take flaps 2 to hold that speed at idle in the descent on the glide, then hit managed speed and drop the gear at 2500 to start slowing, kill the autothrust, then start with Flaps 3 around 1500-1700 feet or so aiming to be fully configured and start spooling up at exactly 1000 feet. Decelerating approach, just like the FMS is programmed, most comfortable, least power changes, least fuel burned, stable at 1000 feet, exactly the way I briefed it to you and you said "sounds good" about 200 miles ago".
Captain "...."
Captain (5 miles from FAF): "You ready for flaps 2?"
FO: ".......yeah, sure, why not. Flaps 2".
Captain (extends Flaps 2 and drops landing gear): "Here's your gear, too".
FO "....." (Slows early due to unexpected gear extension, drives down the glideslope at approach power at Vapp, instead of an idle deceleration).
(Flaps 3, Flaps full, landing, taxi off)
Captain: "You really need to work on your approach profile. You waste a lot of fuel dragging it in like that. What the hell are they teaching you kids in IOE these days?"
FO: "......."
FO (PF): "uhhh..no. Was planning on descending clean at 250 and then decelerating at the little purple "D" on the map screen".
Captain: "I'm a real advocate of using the slats. I mean, do you want to be on the bare edge of a stall this close to the ground?"
FO: "Dude, Vls is 190. Green dot (L/D Max) is 221, clean speeds. How is 250 the bare edge of a stall?"
Captain: (Suddenly without warning, extends slats and calls "FLAPS 1").
FO:"...."
(Time passes)
Capt (10 miles out level at GS intercept altitude of 3600 ft, driving in on the localizer at CONFIG 1 at 190 knots): "You ready for Flaps 2?"
FO: "No, actually I was going to wait till a couple miles out from intercept, slow to 180 and take flaps 2 to hold that speed at idle in the descent on the glide, then hit managed speed and drop the gear at 2500 to start slowing, kill the autothrust, then start with Flaps 3 around 1500-1700 feet or so aiming to be fully configured and start spooling up at exactly 1000 feet. Decelerating approach, just like the FMS is programmed, most comfortable, least power changes, least fuel burned, stable at 1000 feet, exactly the way I briefed it to you and you said "sounds good" about 200 miles ago".
Captain "...."
Captain (5 miles from FAF): "You ready for flaps 2?"
FO: ".......yeah, sure, why not. Flaps 2".
Captain (extends Flaps 2 and drops landing gear): "Here's your gear, too".
FO "....." (Slows early due to unexpected gear extension, drives down the glideslope at approach power at Vapp, instead of an idle deceleration).
(Flaps 3, Flaps full, landing, taxi off)
Captain: "You really need to work on your approach profile. You waste a lot of fuel dragging it in like that. What the hell are they teaching you kids in IOE these days?"
FO: "......."
This is the mirror image of a FLAP I flew with last month. Kept calling for flaps/gear WAY early. "You really want to drag this gear around for 20 miles?" I guess if you're scared of a big airplane....
08-22-2014, 07:51 AM
#153
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
Originally Posted by gloopy
An FO friend at another airline did almost that once. As soon as they landed, he briefed the CA that he (the CA) would be the PF for the rest of the trip because clearly he was nervous with other people flying and wanted everything done his way. My friend said something like "I'm a lot younger than you and will get plenty of landings in my career; I don't need these few for currency or proficiency, so please with my blessings take them all". He claimed the rest of the trip went great.
It is within my right as an FO to not be treated as just an intermediary step between what the Captain wants and it being done. "Hey Captain, it seems you have specific ways you prefer the airplane to be flown. I am fine with not flying the rest of this trip."
In the end, I get paid the same flying, or working the radios. Plus, if he does all of the flying the rest of the trip, you get the extra satisfaction of laughing inside if he has a rough landing.
08-22-2014, 07:53 AM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: Lunar Lander Commander
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by 450knotOffice
To each his own. I've done this job for many, many years, yet work as an FO now at AA. Out of pure deference to the guy in the left seat, I ask "you ready for the call to push?"
I gotta say, though, that this thread has really made me LOL, as I've been there, done that. Some GREAT stuff in here.
I gotta say, though, that this thread has really made me LOL, as I've been there, done that. Some GREAT stuff in here.
What I hate as an FO is when there is always such a rush but yet were early. And then they try to rush me which just makes me take longer. Sometimes I will even re write the speeds down again as I stare at them with the corner of my LEFT eye.
08-22-2014, 08:21 AM
#155
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
I don't do shiit til you're ready. When you are, let me know.
That's out of courtesy to the captain not because I haven't a clue to what's going on.
That's out of courtesy to the captain not because I haven't a clue to what's going on.
Otherwise most wait to be told, which is probably appropriate with most CA's.
08-22-2014, 12:02 PM
#156
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by The Juice
This is what I would do as well. Captain wants the plane flown a certain way, and as long as its within the bounds of the pertinent airline manual, I believe it is their right. However......
It is within my right as an FO to not be treated as just an intermediary step between what the Captain wants and it being done. "Hey Captain, it seems you have specific ways you prefer the airplane to be flown. I am fine with not flying the rest of this trip."
In the end, I get paid the same flying, or working the radios. Plus, if he does all of the flying the rest of the trip, you get the extra satisfaction of laughing inside if he has a rough landing.
It is within my right as an FO to not be treated as just an intermediary step between what the Captain wants and it being done. "Hey Captain, it seems you have specific ways you prefer the airplane to be flown. I am fine with not flying the rest of this trip."
In the end, I get paid the same flying, or working the radios. Plus, if he does all of the flying the rest of the trip, you get the extra satisfaction of laughing inside if he has a rough landing.
And why is it the micromanager types have the worst landings? If they're so good at flying how can they not manage a flare?
08-22-2014, 12:05 PM
#157
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I'm happy to go 250 to 10 out. It's way more than 250 to the marker which is how we flew the E145.
That said once the slats are already out and the pitch gets above 5 degrees, I call for flaps. Some people like a 10 degree pitch up for prolonged periods in turbulence and behind wake, I don't see the use in it but to each his own.
What did Boeing say, if you put the flaps down to landing flaps on a 747 at 1000' instead of normal you can save... 50 lbs of gas? For an airplane that makes 2 approaches a day you'd save... $40!
That said once the slats are already out and the pitch gets above 5 degrees, I call for flaps. Some people like a 10 degree pitch up for prolonged periods in turbulence and behind wake, I don't see the use in it but to each his own.
What did Boeing say, if you put the flaps down to landing flaps on a 747 at 1000' instead of normal you can save... 50 lbs of gas? For an airplane that makes 2 approaches a day you'd save... $40!
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-22-2014 at 12:34 PM.
08-22-2014, 12:33 PM
#158
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver
Love it!
This is the mirror image of a FLAP I flew with last month. Kept calling for flaps/gear WAY early. "You really want to drag this gear around for 20 miles?" I guess if you're scared of a big airplane....
This is the mirror image of a FLAP I flew with last month. Kept calling for flaps/gear WAY early. "You really want to drag this gear around for 20 miles?" I guess if you're scared of a big airplane....
08-22-2014, 12:50 PM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767A
Posts: 791
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Um, so are all little airplane pilots FLAPS? I flew little airplanes.
Northeast hired a bunch, I flew with many as FO. They pegged the meter one way or another, about 50/50. They were either your favorite capt or on your no-fly list. I've only flown with one Delta hired. World class aerobatic pilot, violation looking for a place to happen in the 727. Unfortunately, I understand Northwest like to throw some in the mix.
08-22-2014, 01:01 PM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver
But not only little airplanes.
Northeast hired a bunch, I flew with many as FO. They pegged the meter one way or another, about 50/50. They were either your favorite capt or on your no-fly list. I've only flown with one Delta hired. World class aerobatic pilot, violation looking for a place to happen in the 727. Unfortunately, I understand Northwest like to throw some in the mix.
Northeast hired a bunch, I flew with many as FO. They pegged the meter one way or another, about 50/50. They were either your favorite capt or on your no-fly list. I've only flown with one Delta hired. World class aerobatic pilot, violation looking for a place to happen in the 727. Unfortunately, I understand Northwest like to throw some in the mix.
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