Loyalty and the Divert Option
08-14-2016, 07:23 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,076
Originally Posted by Baron50
This has got to be the most annoying millennial thread of the year. By all means "buy the forty acres" become a deacon, give this profession up for all our benefit. There are thousands of qualified people that would appreciate the opportunity. If you don't like working for the sleazy Wall Street investors, there is nowhere for you to go, all major airlines are the same. Until you retire, you will not know if you made the right choice, ask any PAA or EAL pilot.
Recognize that you are only a tool of capitalism. To be discarded at the whims of the inhumane corporations. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing beyond the 1st and the 15th, that is the deal you made. They don't love you nor are they suppose to. You may never be happy with the harsh realities of commercial flying, the military is probably where you belong.
On the other hand, if you get over yourself and can leave religion, politics and sexual proclivities in the parking lot, you may have a future. The idea is to not kill anyone, support your sisters and brothers and have fun, in spite of the miscreants that will try to keep you from attaining those goals.
Don't listen to the Albie's in this world
Recognize that you are only a tool of capitalism. To be discarded at the whims of the inhumane corporations. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing beyond the 1st and the 15th, that is the deal you made. They don't love you nor are they suppose to. You may never be happy with the harsh realities of commercial flying, the military is probably where you belong.
On the other hand, if you get over yourself and can leave religion, politics and sexual proclivities in the parking lot, you may have a future. The idea is to not kill anyone, support your sisters and brothers and have fun, in spite of the miscreants that will try to keep you from attaining those goals.
Don't listen to the Albie's in this world
Do I know you!? Leave the "millennial" bashing out of it. And by the way, I'm not a millennial.
And I'm all for leaving politics, religion, and sexual proclivities in the lot...but quite a few of the Captains I have flown with CAN NOT! Some of the stuff I've heard would get quite a few guys called on the carpet.
08-14-2016, 07:47 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,671
Originally Posted by Albief15
My advice on this one (this far in) was stick it out and see what the new contract looks like. Take the extra money, the (soon) free parking, etc and simply decouple a bit from the job emotionally. Its hard when you have spent your life identifying with the military gig to look at going to work as "just a job", but sometimes it is. I actually like the fact the success or failure of my company doesn't always hinge on me flying a sortie or finishing my TPS reports. Still--most of us have been programmed for a long time to get emotionally invested in our jobs. I didn't share this to crap on a guy, but instead to get some discussion going amongst the guys starting off or 1-3 years into the gig that are getting other offers.
The words of a student of mine 20+ years ago started to resonate. He was retired, had a lot of life experience. Typical of a man that was successful, he had lots of failures before he was successful. He was learning to fly because it was simply something he always wanted to do and now had the time and money.
The words were this; "keep you passions and hobbies separate from you J-O-B and you'll often be happier".
As others mentioned in this thread, it's a JOB. As others mentioned, you didn't have that great insurance because FX gave it to you our of the goodness of their heart. In your time as a block rep and other duties you probably saw more than one case were a pilot was being treated crappy by the company and you had to rep him/her. They weren't treating him/her good, hence the need for union representation. As others have mentioned, any airline (FX or other) wouldn't hesitate to treat you like the line item cost we are with the biggest target on our backs due to the highest (outside management) labor cost. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
Coming up on 2 decades in the 121/airline game. The pilots that go around talking about how great the "job" is often never got to endure the post 9/11 poop storm. Or, if they did, they lost pay and other things, but usually not their seat/domicile, etc etc etc.......
It's great that guys/girls getting hired either did a (relatively) short stint in the regionals and went to the legacy or were able to separate and go right to a legacy and have a great view of this career. But I'd love talk to them if (WHEN) another down swing happens and see how their perspective changes. And as others have mentioned, the "drama queens" that suddenly think DAL "sucks" because of management's proposal really crack me up. The guys that are now mad that SW has rather lengthy upgrade but went there thinking they'd get the (not expected to last for everyone) short upgrade crack me up.
Set/manage expectations REALISTICALLY and you'll often be happier. Because, AGAIN, it's a job......
I STILL love flying planes, I STILL love being an airline pilot. Despite the career crap sandwich I had to eat I STILL consider myself lucky I didn't have it worse, that I was still "young" and able to recover. I STILL love the crews and having fun at work, discussing hobbies and passions OUTSIDE of this J-O-B. I'm NOT the poopey pants guy to fly with raining on everyone's parade and rosy glasses.
I'm simply a REALIST about this J-O-B.
08-14-2016, 07:51 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Originally Posted by NoDeskJob
Always appreciate the words of wisdom Albie.
I'm struggling with this situation now...
Working at DL for about 6 months. Currently driving to work in ATL, but wife's job will keep us moving for the next 6 years. So this non-commute is only temporary. My friends at Fedex seem to be loving life, and your contract looks good. If LAX weren't so senior, I probably would have applied yesterday, but we want to live in SoCal eventually and I know LAX is senior at FedEx.
You don't happen to have a seniority calculator to plug in a hypothetical DOH to figure out how far up the ladder one could rise, do you?
I'm struggling with this situation now...
Working at DL for about 6 months. Currently driving to work in ATL, but wife's job will keep us moving for the next 6 years. So this non-commute is only temporary. My friends at Fedex seem to be loving life, and your contract looks good. If LAX weren't so senior, I probably would have applied yesterday, but we want to live in SoCal eventually and I know LAX is senior at FedEx.
You don't happen to have a seniority calculator to plug in a hypothetical DOH to figure out how far up the ladder one could rise, do you?
My advice is to weigh out your short term pain with your long term possibilities at DL. Everyon'es tolerance for pain is both an individual experience and their tolerance level is different. Only you and your family can decide if the long term possibilities are worth the short term difficulties.
It made it all better when I decided to be the one who took a back seat and gave deference to my wife's career. It's much different now. 3 kids, and 25 years later my wife doesn't work any more.
I have been in one base for about 20 years now. Once the kids are all gone, we will likely move. However, if it hadn't worked out, it would have worked out. We would have made it work out. Allot of people would be happy to have our "problems."
No way to figure what the seniority calculators will predict. Those things don't account for mergers, bankruptcies, or world wide security/financial dilemma's.
08-14-2016, 07:56 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Originally Posted by John Carr
The words were this; "keep you passions and hobbies separate from you J-O-B and you'll often be happier".
Set/manage expectations REALISTICALLY and you'll often be happier. Because, AGAIN, it's a job......
I STILL love flying planes, I STILL love being an airline pilot.
I'm simply a REALIST about this J-O-B.
Set/manage expectations REALISTICALLY and you'll often be happier. Because, AGAIN, it's a job......
I STILL love flying planes, I STILL love being an airline pilot.
I'm simply a REALIST about this J-O-B.
08-14-2016, 09:02 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: non acceptus excretus
Posts: 561
Originally Posted by baseball
Unless you a solid gold dancer with moves like Jagger, or you are a trust fund baby, then the three main points above bear repeating. If you are in love with the job more than your CEO, or VP of finance, then you love it too much. We're all human, with human emotions, but it's a job, not a marriage.
That inequity will someday be resolved....
08-14-2016, 09:17 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by John Carr
After my first CA displacement coupled with a pay concession, multiple base closures, CH11/furlough/shutdown and having start all over at the bottom somewhere else 10+ years ago and experience a few of those things again, "emotional" coupling/attachment went away long, long ago........
The words of a student of mine 20+ years ago started to resonate. He was retired, had a lot of life experience. Typical of a man that was successful, he had lots of failures before he was successful. He was learning to fly because it was simply something he always wanted to do and now had the time and money.
The words were this; "keep you passions and hobbies separate from you J-O-B and you'll often be happier".
As others mentioned in this thread, it's a JOB. As others mentioned, you didn't have that great insurance because FX gave it to you our of the goodness of their heart. In your time as a block rep and other duties you probably saw more than one case were a pilot was being treated crappy by the company and you had to rep him/her. They weren't treating him/her good, hence the need for union representation. As others have mentioned, any airline (FX or other) wouldn't hesitate to treat you like the line item cost we are with the biggest target on our backs due to the highest (outside management) labor cost. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
Coming up on 2 decades in the 121/airline game. The pilots that go around talking about how great the "job" is often never got to endure the post 9/11 poop storm. Or, if they did, they lost pay and other things, but usually not their seat/domicile, etc etc etc.......
It's great that guys/girls getting hired either did a (relatively) short stint in the regionals and went to the legacy or were able to separate and go right to a legacy and have a great view of this career. But I'd love talk to them if (WHEN) another down swing happens and see how their perspective changes. And as others have mentioned, the "drama queens" that suddenly think DAL "sucks" because of management's proposal really crack me up. The guys that are now mad that SW has rather lengthy upgrade but went there thinking they'd get the (not expected to last for everyone) short upgrade crack me up.
Set/manage expectations REALISTICALLY and you'll often be happier. Because, AGAIN, it's a job......
I STILL love flying planes, I STILL love being an airline pilot. Despite the career crap sandwich I had to eat I STILL consider myself lucky I didn't have it worse, that I was still "young" and able to recover. I STILL love the crews and having fun at work, discussing hobbies and passions OUTSIDE of this J-O-B. I'm NOT the poopey pants guy to fly with raining on everyone's parade and rosy glasses.
I'm simply a REALIST about this J-O-B.
The words of a student of mine 20+ years ago started to resonate. He was retired, had a lot of life experience. Typical of a man that was successful, he had lots of failures before he was successful. He was learning to fly because it was simply something he always wanted to do and now had the time and money.
The words were this; "keep you passions and hobbies separate from you J-O-B and you'll often be happier".
As others mentioned in this thread, it's a JOB. As others mentioned, you didn't have that great insurance because FX gave it to you our of the goodness of their heart. In your time as a block rep and other duties you probably saw more than one case were a pilot was being treated crappy by the company and you had to rep him/her. They weren't treating him/her good, hence the need for union representation. As others have mentioned, any airline (FX or other) wouldn't hesitate to treat you like the line item cost we are with the biggest target on our backs due to the highest (outside management) labor cost. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
Coming up on 2 decades in the 121/airline game. The pilots that go around talking about how great the "job" is often never got to endure the post 9/11 poop storm. Or, if they did, they lost pay and other things, but usually not their seat/domicile, etc etc etc.......
It's great that guys/girls getting hired either did a (relatively) short stint in the regionals and went to the legacy or were able to separate and go right to a legacy and have a great view of this career. But I'd love talk to them if (WHEN) another down swing happens and see how their perspective changes. And as others have mentioned, the "drama queens" that suddenly think DAL "sucks" because of management's proposal really crack me up. The guys that are now mad that SW has rather lengthy upgrade but went there thinking they'd get the (not expected to last for everyone) short upgrade crack me up.
Set/manage expectations REALISTICALLY and you'll often be happier. Because, AGAIN, it's a job......
I STILL love flying planes, I STILL love being an airline pilot. Despite the career crap sandwich I had to eat I STILL consider myself lucky I didn't have it worse, that I was still "young" and able to recover. I STILL love the crews and having fun at work, discussing hobbies and passions OUTSIDE of this J-O-B. I'm NOT the poopey pants guy to fly with raining on everyone's parade and rosy glasses.
I'm simply a REALIST about this J-O-B.
Spot on, great post!
08-14-2016, 10:15 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: A350 CA
Posts: 295
Meat in the seat.....Doesn't matter who your employer is. Sadly, this is reality and everything else is euphoria fooling you. Corporations will not be loyal to you by choice, they follow contracts and laws which they must abide to. It's funny how pilots forget that we are just unionized labor.
08-15-2016, 06:50 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by Leslie Chow
ALPA..............Code of Ethics???
YGTBFSM!!!! Thanks for the good laugh this morning!!!
I needed it.
YGTBFSM!!!! Thanks for the good laugh this morning!!!
I needed it.
08-15-2016, 09:38 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 154
Originally Posted by captjns
Yeah that got me also. Was wondering if new members have to place their hand on a stack of ALPA Magazines and swear and oath of allegiance to the ALPA, ahem, "Code of Ethics".
