rogue16

First time poster, I don’t think this one has been covered much recently but if it has I apologize. I did the ATP written right before the rule change and have been exploring options to take my ATP practical. The Air Force hasn’t given me much time between 2 deployments and a 6 month training program.



Seeing the trend of the regionals offering an ATP course is it worth getting an ATP with my own money? I figure it’ll cost about 6,500 between getting back stateside, the hotel, and the course itself. Plus at least a week of leave.


MC-12 to KC-135 guy. Making IP is unknown at this point.

middies10

Don't pay for your ATP!! The regionals will essentially pay you to get it. Saying that based on the many that are offering hiring bonuses.


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eraualex

agree with middies10 on this one.
i passed my 135 and 121 atp in 1993 and never took my checkride, so it has in essence expired, and from what i have read and heard all over the net is that if you meet the requirements in total time, age etc, the airline that will hire you will subsidize your atp.

Hacker15e

Don't forget what you (hopefully) learned in a college economics class long ago about the "time value of money".

Consider the finances of both situations:

- You go to a regional airline and let them soak up the cost of your ATP and type rating. You "save" $6,000, but in the process have to live on regional airline training pay for 3-4 months while you go through the program (just for argument's sake, let's call that $2,000/month of pay, but that's pretty generous). Most of the regional hiring bonuses require you to stay at the airline for a time after training in order to cash in, so you're not even going to get most of that bonus because you're planning on leaving the regional quickly. You leave in short order to a major airline, and live with a couple months of training pay (let's call that $4,000/month) before you get to the line and a major-airline-level paycheck (4-6-9 months later than you would if you'd been hired by a major directly out of the AF).

- You pay out of pocket for an ATP, (-$6,000) but are able to get hired at a major right away as soon as you leave the AF. You make major-airline training pay during training ($4,000/month instead of $2,000/month at the regional) and then move on to the major league salary.

Do the math. By the time you get on the line at a major airline, which route is more financially beneficial? What about putting a pricetag on the months of potential seniority lost at the major job during the detour through the regionals?

If someone is riding a desk for their last years in the Air Force, and need the currency/recency to move on to the majors as well as needing a CTP and/or an ATP, then of course it is smart to go get hired at a regional and let them soak up your CTP and ATP costs.

If you're going to be current when you leave the military, and you have the real possibility of going to the majors immediately upon starting terminal leave, it isn't really even a question about which path is more financially smart.

Brillo

Dude,

I've been debating the same thing. Hacker15e laid out almost exactly what I've been thinking. It looks like I'll be current when I retire, but I'll be around 2500 total time multi/1500 PIC (tiltrotors, which all of the majors are counting now, this coming from tiltrotor guys who've been hired. The question is how "favorably/equally" they're counting it).

I have a feeling that would put me on the cusp of what a major might consider. Will have to do the ATP CTP and the Practical, so around $10,000 out of pocket for me. I know a regional would pick that up, but if there's even a slight shot a major would take me on right away, I think I'll probably just pay it out of pocket and roll the dice, vice trying to get a regional to pay for it.

Sliceback

It sucks to pay money up front. But getting hired one month sooner, at the end of your career, is worth $20,000-30,000 in 2015 dollars.

If you get hired two 5 weeks sooner you're ahead of the game. Six months earlier pays for a college education. A year earlier pays for two college educations.

The uncertainty of investing in job fairs, ATP courses, etc, can be daunting, especially as the cost increases.

Dubz

I'm at a regional right now reestablishing currency and I am happy to be here and I am learning a ton about the 121 world. All of that being said, avoid the regionals if you can and pay for the ATP. If you have a shot to get hired by a major start there if you find yourself in a bind apply to the regionals. You'll get hired here practically overnight. I applied on Saturday night, had a call Sunday morning, an interview 2 weeks later, and a class date at the interview for as soon as 2 weeks out. In searching for any airline (but especially regionals) prioritize no/minimum/ease of commute, minimal reserve time, pay. Just my opinion but I think that most former mil flyers aren't going to be flying C/ERJs for very long so quality of life is more important than pay.

rogue16

Thanks for the thoughts, looks like I might have to tell the wife Bali will come next year. Lets hope my next assignment won't be staff.

Dubz

I'd pad that bank account as well (if you haven't already), if you find yourself at a regional you are going to appreciate it, if you manage to avoid the regionals you can enjoy that extended retirement vaca in Bali.

Heed

My thoughts would be to wait until your next assignment if you are taking another assignment.

If you end up with a flying assignment on your last tour and can log at least 100 hours in the last 12 months, then pay for the ATP out of pocket as it's a no brainer as previously laid out.

If you end up with a staff tour, then you still have another decision point.

You could get your currency through flight instruction, on the side, if you have your CFI. I jumped into the airline game late and that was an option I pursued while on active duty hoping to avoid the regionals for currency. It counts toward currency and I was hired.

Or you could go the route of the regionals and let them cover your ATP as you also regain your currency. As Dubz implies, the regionals provide you with 121 experience and demonstration of passing a 121 training program. That would be a great resume enhancer and make you all the more competitive in the pool of candidates. It's another "check in the block" on the electronic apps that feed into the mythical app score gonkulators.

Last, as Dubz as wisely mentions, start padding your bank account. Do it no matter your potential COA for ATP achievement. Assuming you are going to 20, you will take a massive pay cut even at the majors. You may also have a gap between your last paycheck and hiring (even worse).

Since I jumped into the pool right near the end, I don't have as much extra cash in the bank as I would like to soften the pay cut. I would also take a hard look at your taxes as you are getting a lot of breaks in the military. I was fortunate and had a few friends a year+ in front of me that wrote huge checks after the first year out (doesn't matter what the job is). I sat down I made my best guess at federal & state tax bills. It was much higher than what I thought.

Good luck!