HerkGuy

Hey all, I've dug around on the forums for an answer to this question and come up short, so hopefully someone will have some insight.

I'm currently an AF instructor and I've been attempting to plan for the future recently. I would love for the airlines or the Guard to be an option that's open to me in a few years when I'm eligible to get out, but I currently have two Q-3s on my record, and I'm just trying to decide if that totally eliminates a future in aviation outside the Air Force. The first Q-3 happened when I was a young AC. My co-pilot and I got some confusing information from the user when conducting some personnel drops, and long story short, we used the wrong data in our airdrop computations and dropped a couple guys off the back of the DZ. We met a bad bomb board and both of us received a Q-3. I learned a valuable lesson on that one and I triple check information received from jump masters now.

The second Q-3 happened while I was working a non-flying job, but I was attached to a unit to fly and maintain a qualification. I was able to fly about 20-30 hours a year, and when it was time for my check ride, the schedulers threw me in with a brand new co-pilot. At this point I was an IP, so even though I had an extreme lack of proficiency, I should have been able to fly with the new guy no problem. Well again, during a time crunch the co-pilot missed a couple things when computing the airdrop and I never caught it. The EP called a no-drop for us at 30 seconds and I received my second big fat Q-3.

My question at this point is whether or not I should even consider the airlines a feasible option anymore. I don't know many guys who've moved to the airlines at this point in my career, but I do know some in the Guard and Reserves. Do you think I still have a shot with either of these paths?

Thanks!

cfl9

Looking forward to responses. We Herk pilots eat our own and our records don't look great because of it. I'm wondering if a Q1 debriefed downgrade for "late pressing eSKE prep" is seriously a concern for airlines.

UPTme

I know many guys that have Q3s that have gotten hired recently with Majors. DAL, FDX, etc.

Be able to explain what you learned from it, and how you grew as an aviator. What you have going for you is that you got hooked for something that is unique to military aviation. What you have going against you is that you hooked for the same thing twice, so your 'lesson learned' story needs to be good.

CFL9.... a Q1 is a Q1.

MaxThrustPower

You might as well forget about an airline career.

Our premium frequent flyers will absolutely not tolerate being dropped out of the DZ.

CODs4ever

Navy guy here. What is a Q3? Is that like going before a Field Naval Aviator Evaluation Board or being grounded for a short time?

kbronc

Im not saying you aren't owning up to it, but I had to read that twice because the first time I read it as you were blaming the JM and the new copirate... Which wouldn't go to swell in an interview setting...

Overall it shouldn't be an issue, be able to talk about it to your audience... Meaning interviewers (HR) that have no idea what a bomb board, jms, pink bodies, or DZ surveys entail. Interview prep would be beneficial when the time comes, in the meantime try not to get another one!

MaxThrustPower

Quote:

Originally Posted by CODs4ever

Navy guy here. What is a Q3? Is that like going before a Field Naval Aviator Evaluation Board or being grounded for a short time?

Air Force checkrides are graded Q1, Q2, or Q3. Q1 is the highest grade, meaning fully proficient and qualified. Q3 is unqualified and is usually reserved for the most deficient performance or lack of skill and knowledge. Q2 is a marginal performance where some additional requirements are normally mandated before a crewmember is returned to fully-qualified status.

The exact verbage from the regulations are below:

"Q1: The aircrew member demonstrated desired performance and knowledge of procedures, equipment and directives within tolerances specified in the grading criteria.

Q2: The aircrew member demonstrated the ability to perform duties SAFELY, *BUT* there were one or more area(s) / subarea(s) where additional training was assigned.

Q3: The aircrew member demonstrated an UNACCEPTABLE level of safety, performance, or knowledge."

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/pr..._aetcsup_i.pdf

cfl9

DAL pilot friend of mine, 8 years with the company, said even Q2 are not an issue...you're still qualified after a Q2. It's Q3s that you need to explain.

Does that sound right to everyone else?

Hacker15e

The airline world does not care about Q3s as much as the Air Force does.

Not a show stopper.

CODs4ever

Yep. In the Navy those are:

Qualified -- Q
Conditionally Qualified -- CQ
Unsatisfactory -- U

Thanks for the explanation.