Originally Posted by
Nosmo King
If nothing changes in either contract and AirTran guys get
matched by 2013, every 12 yr captain at SWA will make less (per hour) than a 747 captain at DAL.
HOWEVER
The SWA Captains will make more (per hour)than all the DAL A330, 767-400, 767-300/200 captains.
I think it is fair to say that AirTran guys will be making more than DAL widebody Captains in 2013.
Straight hourly rates, not annual compensation:
DAL payrates eff 01/01/2011
SWA payrates eff 2011??
12yr DAL 747 Captain $217.07
12yr SWA 737 Captain $211.98
12yr DAL 330 Captain $205.04
12yr DAL 767 Captain $181.69
12yr DAL 737 Captain $175.13 (-900)
12yr DAL 737 Captain $174.23 (-800/700)
12yr DAL M88 Captain $161.23
More tidbits:
Reserve guarantee DAL 70 hours
Reserve guarantee SWA 79 hours
Yes, proof that DAL pays it's female and minority pilots less than SWA pays its male pilots for the same work. Equal pay for equal work. Are our female and minority pilots not worth equal pay? I think not. Raise it.
Originally Posted by
Carl Spackler
Correct, and correct.
But also remember that no matter what you put down on your survey, we'll be working under these BK/emergency rates until AT LEAST 2013...while AirTran pilots will be making more than our 744/777 Captains.
Carl
Originally Posted by
slowplay
Uh, not exactly.
According to APC pay tables:
AirTran 737 rate:$163
Delta 737 rate: $174
Delta 747 rate: $217
AirTran is being operated as a wholly owned subsidiary (Guadalupe holdings). I expect that they will eventually come under the SWA contract/pay rates, but there hasn't been a JCBA negotiated. The history of negotiating that document isn't very pretty for major/national airlines. AAA/AWA have been at it since 2005. UAL/CAL have been at it since May of 2010. The SWA/AAI integration has and will continue to sorely test the "culture" just like it has everywhere else. The threads on this board are proof of that.
Originally Posted by
Carl Spackler
I didn't say AirTran pilots ARE making...I said AirTran pilots WILL be making more than our 777/744 Captains. You insinuate that AirTran pilots won't be brought up to SWA rates anytime soon...I disagree. And when they are, you can trot out your standard blather that they aren't our peers.
Carl
Originally Posted by
Pineapple Guy
Carl, I find this laughable. What makes you think AirTran pilots will be making more than 777 Captains in 2013? SWA pilots maybe, but not AirTran....
Just because DAL gave you guys parity on day 1, don't think that is typical. I suspect AirTran guys will phase in over ~3 years to reach SWA pay parity. Mark my word.
You were lucky... they won't be.
Originally Posted by
slowplay
Exactly. Carl asserts as fact that which is not. He gets called on it, and the guy that wrote a "kiss and tell" book complains that the detes are getting left out...
For Buzzpat, the SWA rate is listed at $210 per hour on this site. Helpful? I want to make a lot more than that. You?
I'm so confused about this interaction. I read Carl's post as saying:
1) We're stuck with current rate table until at least 2013, which is true is it not?
2) By the time we get new pay rates AirTran pilots will transition to SWA pay rates, will they not?
3) AirTran pilots therefore will be making SWA pay which is higher than DAL pay for 747/777 A's, which is true if you you can believe APC numbers:
$210/hr for SWA x 78 hours (min pay) x 12 months is greater than DAL 747/777 $217/hr x 70 hours x 12 months.
Therefore: SWA 737 A $196K > DAL 747/777 A $182K.
So by 2013, won't we still be on our current rates while AirTran A's make more than our DAL 777/747 A's?