Originally Posted by
gloopy
I explained wy it was a separate issue relative to what was being discussed but you chopped it. I was referring to the false arguement that we if there is a wholly owned subsidiary flying permitted types that means we must allow non wholly owned subsidiaries to fly whatever they want as long as its on another certificate.
And your MEC made its bed with your DOH (or anything greater than a staple, even one with certain protections) and you have been riding high on the post 9-11 small jet outsourcing heyday, which is rapidly coming to a close. Regionals are going bankrupt, sending planes to the boneyards and losing flying now. You may be at a powerhouse today, but so was Comair not that long ago. Your chickens (arrogant MEC's and massive tactical miscalculations and overestimations) too will come home to roost.
Gloopy,
You and Joe might be talking past each other.
This deals with the legal theory that "you can not bind holding companies to a scope agreement" in legalese, "a non signatory third party can not be bound to a contract."
This theory was brought forward as a justification for ALPA's denial of ASA and Comair's attempts to secure their own scope over DCI flying (after the Delta pilots outsourced it). The results of this legal theory can be seen in many places:
- Republic Airlines Holdings operation of what we considered to be "mainline" competitors while flying under our scope
- The inception of GoJets as a separate certificate to make an end run around American's scope agreement.
- Advice to the TWA pilots that their scope would not be binding on American, thus they had no reason to protect section 1.
Of course what preceded all of this is the decision to keep ASA and Comair off the Delta list. Once that decision was made, many more decisions had to be made to manage three carriers operating as alter egos within one Corporate holding company.
Unfortunately the legal justifications to make the political situation work had many consequences which harmed a great many pilots aside from those at Delta who were furloughed and the Comair pilots who saw "their" flying disbursed. The results harmed Trans States, TWA, NWA, United, American and ASA pilots to one degree or another. The only beneficiary was the non union carriers who experienced explosive growth as a result of scope being seriously undermined.
As for the original legal concept ... just pick up a copy of any insurance policy. The legal concept has been operative since the Second Century. There are numerous non signatory third party beneficiaries, obligors and obligees.
Further, with a Pilot Board Member, tell me we could not write restrictions into Republic's contract on a First Party basis. We obviously could if we wanted to.
As for the history, Joe is correct and sadly, it is what is going to kill our Association if we can't get it turned around. ALPA has been in a steady decline, in qualitative, quantitative, and economic terms for the last ten years.