Originally Posted by
SONORA PASS
The same TPA that would allow a shift of flying from UAL to CAL also has a poison pill that remains intact. The filling of CAL vacancies with UAL pilots, who do not relinquish recall rights at UAL going forward.
If this trend continues in the wrong direction, a large group of these pilots could reach the breaking point, and all depart at once while keeping seniority and recall rights at UAL intact. In addition other UAL pilots who bypassed the offer may feel compelled at this point to accept first rights at any training openings and also resign when finished. With the current CAL staffing model, this could make for one very interesting summer in the near future.
SP
SP, why would UAL furloughees up and quit CAL? What exactly has UALALPA done for us?
Increased flying caps in C2003 by 10-15%, allowing UAL to furlough additional pilots.
Agreed to PBS in C2003, resulting in a 5-10% reduction in pilot staffing needs.
Traded away furloughee longevity, offered by the company in TA1, for something for the senior pilots.
Denied bond money to furloughees and retirees.
Agreed to unlimited 70 seat RJs.
And I'm sure that the list would be significantly longer if I put some effort into it. On the bright side, UALALPA did vote for the now industry standard furloughee medical/dental fund - just don't check the final voting results; it doesn't speak well for our UAL brothers. It passed by a razor, razor thin margin.
UALALPA has dumped a lot of poison in the well for UAL furloughees; I suspect that at least a few of us will find ourselves more loyal to our CAL brothers than our UAL brothers.
Originally Posted by
gettinbumped
You beat me too it. Furloughing from UAL is going to create the mother of all disasters for management. It will more than double training costs, as furloughed pilots would need to go to CAL indoc and then new airplane training. Then when UAL starts to recall, they go back and have to redo it all over again at UAL, thus decimating the CAL staffing. I hope even our management can see how disruptive and expensive that would be to their own airline
Originally Posted by
Coto Pilot
I just read on the United forum that the first class at Continental has a number of Captains including a couple 747 ones that took voluntary furloughs. They are going back to be 737 FO's at $190/hour. If United decides to fulough again, a pilot can take a voluntary furlough, get paid I think it was 4 months severance, and start in a class at Continental the next day making the pay he was at United. So how how are they going to save money?
UCH management is not going to be furloughing from the UAL side while hiring on the CAL side. They can do the math and are aware of the associated costs.
A more logical and likely step for UCH is to shrink UAL roughly equal to age 65 retirements. UCH management can retire UAL 757s in a measured manner to match those pilot retirements. Plus, UCH has a pretty decent cushion in the number of flight hours that they can fly each UAL pilot - anywhere from minimum guarantee (65 line/70 reserve) to monthly maximum (89 widebody, 95 narrowbody). So there's no need to furlough from the UAL side of the house. If the average pilot at UAL is close to monthly maximums, UCH can retire a few UAL aircraft. If the average UAL pilot is close to minimum guarantee, there's no need to retire aircraft; simply allow age 65 to eliminate the surplus.
Now, step back for a moment. Now that CAL is hiring UAL furloughees, what is the incentive for UCH to grow the UAL side?
Keep this in mind - the CASM on the CAL side is less than on the UAL side of the house. Let me break it down to your daily life. Let's assume that your Porsche's (this is for the UAL pilots I flew with prior to being furloughed the second time - showing me pictures of Porsches, third wives, and boats, yet needed age 65 because their pension was wiped out) gas tank is empty. You can pay $3.69 for premium at the Chevron or $3.74 for premium at the Exxon across the street. Which gas are you going to use? The bottom line is that air travel, much like gasoline, is a commodity where very few people are loyal one brand. And since UCH can get their flying done for less on the CAL side of the house, that's where the flying will go.
My point here is that the UAL side will not grow until after JCBA. All growth will occur on the CAL side. At the same time, there will not be any further UAL furloughs unless CAL has furloughed all of their newly hired UAL refugees.
Now, let's step back another ten paces. UAL furloughees hired at CAL will not be on probation - including those who were on probation when furloughed from UAL. That means that they can vote in ALPA from day one. I propose that we make it very clear to ALPA that unless there is full restoration of furloughee longevity for pay
AND benefits (benefits are more important to me than pay, as I'm on year 4), your vote will be
NO.
With that in mind, I would encourage any UAL furloughee on the fence to accept a job a CAL.
SP and all UAL furloughees, we UAL furloughees can have some control over getting credit for furlough time. I think that we have a golden opportunity here to get furlough credit.
I don't know where CALALPA sits on furloughee longevity but from what I've read, they're a he11uva lot more loyal to their junior pilots. And since there are more than a few CAL ex-furloughees, I'm sure that we could reach critical mass very quickly.