Goodness, I don't know when I've last seen a post that contained so much outdated, irrelevant information, that has the potential to lead you to false conclusions, based on a lack of facts.

Undisputed Facts:

RAH bought F9 out of BK.
Some Airbus's aren't much bigger than a 190.
A 320 isn't much bigger than a 319.
A 190 is LOTS bigger than a 135.
A Mule is larger than a Donkey, but smaller than most Horses.

Questionable statements:

Historically, the purchaser was an entity that was larger (ASM's, Aircraft, etc.) or equal to the carrier they purchased and were in the same business - Cargo to Cargo, Airline to Airline, FFD to FFD, NOT FFD and Major and NOT little wages vs industry standard or better wages (even with a "concession").

Before I even get started, how much is your Union willing to spend on assuring that the Frontier pilots don't give a "concession" even though we will still be paid more than 90% of your pilots? What in the heck does the IBT stand to gain in forcing a pay raise on the F9 pilots when we want to help the Company and are willing to defer compensation until the Company is able to provide it? How in the world is that fulfilling a Duty of Fair Representation?

Actually, many people profess to know what would have happened. What DID happen is RAH did not have to furlough more pilots, they found a spot for 170's until they could get them back to FFD and found a way to operate their 99 seat version of the 190.

I don't recall the number of RAH pilots that would have been furloughed and may not have been back yet, but it was not an insignificant number.

And Frontier got to keep doing what we do best. Hopefully we'll be back to full strength, culture, morale and PROFITABILITY soon as we fade out of the IBT and the FFD world of RAH.

Strange Statements with no bearing on the topic:


AirTran maybe a decent example, but SWA is different (in good ways (?) and evil ways) than any other Passenger Carrier in the world. AirTran blinked, I think I would have as well.

My friends at NWA aren't at all distressed with the way their merger turned out.

US Airways and America West is unique in it's own ugly way. Turned into a Union battle.



Done with Old Business, now for Older Business that may help explain the present:


RAH & F9 started a union battle 18 months prior to the actual SLI results.


IBT indisputably had corrupt leadership. They cut the President loose only when it looked as though he was going down on his own or would drag others in the IBT down with him. You really think Jimmy didn't have any idea?

The IBT STILL sent the remaining corrupt, incompetent 747 ExCo members to represent CHQ pilots in the SLI process, AFTER it was determined that 747 was a "Boys Club" of thieves, liars and malcontents and while the IBT 747 Leadership was under indictment for encouraging those principals and behavior.

The folks the IBT sent to Negotiations, Mediation and Arbitration certainly embraced the "old school" way of doing things but did NOTHING to bring the picture of a professional pilot to mind. I believe the vast majority of the RAH pilots would have been horrifically embarrassed by their representatives and their behavior.

In January, the IBT goon squad showed up, The 4 unions talked for approximately an hour, then the discussions degraded to a IBT - FAPA discussion/debate/argument. One of the cool ALPA dudes started making and launching paper airplanes during that completely useless exchange. He was ahead of his time in recognizing we weren't going anywhere.

The IBT called a caucus, when they returned, they said, "We will not meet as a group again, we will only meet one-on-one with each union." That is a direct quote, members of TWU, ALPA and FAPA can verify the statement.

The three remaining Unions chose to continue discussions without the IBT "representatives."

The IBT and your "negotiators" failed to accomplish their duty or even try to represent you, their dues paying membership, from Day One!

Surprise, TWU, ALPA and FAPA recognized the IBT reps for what they were. There wasn't a chance of discussions, negotiations or mediation.

Mediation occurred the 3rd week of February. It was supposed to start on Monday, the 14th and go through Friday, the 18th.

Your IBT Reps (including the current NC Chair, NC Vice Chair and your assessment paid Negotiator/Attorney) couldn't come on Monday the 14th because it was Valentine's Day and one of the ExCo members (MR) allegedly had a wedding anniversary that weekend.

They arrived at around 1500 on Monday. On Tuesday, they met with the Mediator for an hour. On Wednesday, they met with the other unions for less than 15 minutes and went home on Thursday.

The professional Mediator/Arbitrator came down after a 1 hour meeting with the IBT reps, on February 15, 2010, and told, TWU, ALPA and FAPA, "They're on another planet." Again, a direct quote. It can be verified by pilots representing the pilots of Lynx, Midwest and Frontier.

Also, keep in mind, each union paid for each week, whether they used it or not. The IBT completely wasted your money on that trip, the trip to Dallas in January and I will guarantee you the restriction against using IBT funds for alcohol weren't in effect at that time.

At arbitration, Your President sat at the end of the table, opposite the Arbitrator, playing video games during the arbitration, with one of your ExCo members. We could all see the reflection in their glasses and on their face of the video games, I'm sure Eischen could too. And yet that POS ruled the way he did, he must like 55+ year olds that play video games. Serious gain for RAH pilots….

There seems to be an increasing number of "Native" RAH pilots recreating, ignoring or unaware of the history of this transaction.

If you don't know the history, you can't understand how we've gotten to where we are now.

I'm sorry but the IBT Reps sold the "Native" RAH'ers a bill of goods. I believe they continue to do so with your Section 6 negotiations and with the incredibly inaccurate information they provide - or even more importantly DON'T provide - to their membership.

The current NC Chair is the same NC Chair that brought you your last contract!!

These are the same people currently "negotiating" the 4 open sections of your contract.


DON'T believe me. If you care, start asking questions of your Representatives. Pat Gannon and his group are exemplary in my opinion. Pat is a good man and can be trusted and I'm sorry that he's not a member of your new EBoard.

Ask Pat what he knows, once he's out of office. Go back and ask you NC Chair, NC Vice Chair, former EBoard President and the people he surrounded himself with, what happened during the SLI process? Watch their eyes, ask your fellow pilots what they think of PP and MR as people.

Travis is an enigma to me as I'm sure he is to many RAH pilots. If I had his life, I wouldn't leave the island, ask him. I'm not at all sure what he'll say, but you don't become a successful, respected businessman without being a forthright individual at some level.

If you have a choice, get rid of the Trustee! He’s a blithering Idiot and cares only for his job at the IBT, NOT the future of the RAH pilots or any other pilot group. If we all end up on the street, he’ll still have a good paying job.


You see, there is much more to this RAH/F9 relationship than you may be aware of, I applaud your instinct to support YOUR Reps, but I truly believe that if everyone had more information, they would be able to take a much more informed position on the matter(s) at hand.

Cut and paste this to the 357 message board and see what responses you get.

No, really, put this on your board, if you're here, you're interested. If you're interested, you must - at some level - be seeking the truth. What better place to find the truth than to slap this up on your message board and see what the responses are?

If Misty won't do it, any "Native" RAH pilot that has the balls and an interest in the truth ought to do it. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. It seems unlikely though as there were three unions hoping to work together and one union - the IBT - that wanted nothing to do with anyone.