I’ve been pondering your post, as I wanted to respond in a reasonable, unemotional manner in response to your well thought out positions, thoughts and suggestions. I respect what you have to say and want to respond accordingly We'll see how I do.....

We don’t want to be IBT. Yes, we lost the election our legal representative body is the IBT, but we disagree with so much of what the IBT represents, the foundation of their strategy, philosophy and goals and the way IBT International deals with employers and management.

The best example of that are the videos from the February 8, 2011 meeting with IBT International. From Jimmy Hoffa, to the International Affairs Rep, to David Bourne, to Scott Hegland and Doug Turner – none of these people display the traits the Frontier pilots have grown accustom to in their Representation and Representatives, previously of FAPA.

Our sincere desire to separate from the RAH FFD side of the business and operate our airline as in once was. Obviously, we need a better Management team, as the last group made so many poor decisions that we ended up in BK.

In our opinion, be it right or wrong, anything we do with the IBT reduces our chances of separating from the RAH FFD side and regaining the type of relationship and representation, that FAPA provided.

A side effect of the whole affair is that I have gained some great friends at RAH, Midwest and Lynx, I have a better understanding of the FFD business and how poorly RAH Management has treated your pilot group.

This is not personal between the F9 pilots and the RAH pilots, it’s professional between our group and the IBT. I don’t hold anything against the “Native” RAH line pilots who won the arbitration and are only doing what any other group would have done had they won the arbitration.

We recently lost, yet another round, with Eischen regarding 8 former MEA pilots that were hired as new hires. They argued, successfully, that they deserved their IMSL. They went from #292 on the F9 FO list to #15 (that’s the most senior MEA pilot, the rest went in somewhere below that). That’s upset a lot of FO’s and some Captains, I personally feel that the situation was handled correctly, that’s a quite unpopular position.

Local 357 has done nothing to indicate that they are willing to form such a group, so by first joining the IBT, then HOPING for some sort of accommodation would require a huge leap of faith by the F9 pilot group with nothing upon which to base that leap.

Remember, we attempted to work with IBT National and 357, to no avail.

Again, to dissolve FAPAInvest, with absolutely no guarantees from the IBT is at best a leap of faith and in the worst case scenario, would put FAPA and FAPAInvest in a position that THEY could be sued by our membership for supporting and recommending that LOA 67 be ratified - then walking away from it.

We want out of this mess. We willingly, with open eyes, overwhelmingly ratified LOA 67, which included pay concessions and modifications to some benefits, to work with RAH Management. Those concessions, which occurred before the representation vote, were a result of negotiations and compromise between FAPA and RAH.

I can’t quite get my arms around the proposal that, in lieu of FAPAInvest dissolving, we should include the RAH pilots in on the deal. FAPA and the Frontier pilots gave up something in exchange for gaining something, RAH pilots have given nothing, so what would entitle them to gain anything?

I fully appreciate that the RAH pilots (especially the FO’s) don’t have much to give as your current pay, work rules, benefits and QOL life issues absolutely have no room to give up ANYTHING. Please don’t construe that to be flame bait, I’m trying to show that I empathize with your situation

I’ll wear whatever lanyard my leadership recommends (be that IBT or FAPA), it’s a very small part of the complex problems we all face. I believe the majority of Frontier pilots recognize that the RAH pilots need a better contract, but we’re not remotely involved, or quite frankly affected, by the Section 6 negotiations/mediation currently underway in addressing the 4 open sections of your contract. I don’t know what a show of solidarity would look like in this situation or what effect, if any, it would have on your negotiations/mediation.

Again, we don’t want one contact. Our operations (FFD vs Branded) are so dissimilar that there’s no way that one contract will fit all of our disparate needs and desires. One contact will make separation more difficult.

Additionally, rightly or wrongly, the Frontier pilots are convinced that a negotiation for “one contract” will result in the IBT taking from the Frontier pilots and giving our cuts to the “Native” RAH pilots. RAH pilots have told me personally that, given a chance, the IBT will take from us to gain advances in their portion of our “one” contract.”

I continue to disagree strongly that F9 is the only group perpetuating “the fight.” Objectively, I think you would have to agree that the IBT is doing everything in their power to derail any positive outcome for the F9 pilot group. In some cases, it seems as though they are fighting just because they can and it comes off as vindictive and just plain mean.

We have another LOA, LOA 69, which specifies that certain Committees will be comprised solely of Frontier pilots. Those Committees are, Scheduling, Hotel and System Board of Adjustment. The IBT tells us that they have “an unwritten policy” that requires all Committee members to be members of the IBT. It’s not contractual, it’s not in your Constitution and Bylaws, there is no legal requirement for the IBT’s position. It’s jusy because they say so.

If the IBT would climb off their high horse on this position and put Agency Fee payers or even Objectors on the Committees that our contract specifies, they might start a campaign of winning “the hearts and minds” of the Frontier group. By excluding them, the IBT is violating our contract, not utilizing the most qualified personnel and is taking the opportunity to use an “unwritten” policy to slap every Frontier pilot in the face.

It is all about making a statement, for the reasons I’ve enumerated above.

Again, as previously mentioned, the IBT COULD allow us to be involved as things stand now. They are making a conscious decision to exclude us until we fully capitulate. They don’t have to exclude us, they could take the first step and get Frontier pilots involved, that has the potential to open the door, allow Frontier pilots to see how the IBT operates from the inside and allow us to make an informed decision instead of only seeing the negative, litigious side of the operation.

I truly appreciate your personal willingness to involve F9 pilots, if they joined in mass. However, once again, that would require a huge leap of faith by the F9 group. IF we join then we MAY get the chance to be involved, but there are no guarantees. I’d hazard a guess that not everyone on the FFD side or within the IBT feel the same way you do.

I guess the best analogy I can think of is, we feel the same level of trust (or lack thereof) towards the IBT that the “Native” RAH pilots and the IBT feel towards your RAH Management. Take every negative experience and situation your group has encountered with Management and try to imagine that that’s how the F9 group feels towards the IBT.

I maintain that the ball is in the IBT’s court. They HAVE to do something to show us that there is an advantage to joining the IBT, that if we were to buy into the IBT that we would be welcome and allowed to influence our destiny.

I’m sorry we see the same situation from such opposite points of view, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain your position and thoughts in a non-confrontational, reasoned manner.