Oldmako, I agree with most of your points and some of your logic, but I just don't believe it's going to be enough to move management off their tragically flawed belief that we will succumb to a "next generation" labor agreement. In other words, management truly believes we will continue subsidizing profits with concessions. Recently, Fred was heard to say that we are millions and millions apart on an agreement and didn't see an end in sight. These guys want to believe that the concessions both pilot groups have been subjected to are now the new status quo. I'm very confident that we won't move off our position either but frankly I don't see any of the scenarios you described, whether they come to pass or not, as being sufficient to move management. I agree with your assessment that we won't be allowed to strike - in the short term. But unfortunately I don't think this is going to be a short term thing. I'll be ecstatic if I'm wrong...