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Old 01-05-2012 | 06:54 PM
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APC225
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Originally Posted by 757Driver
Can you site some specific examples of retro work rules compensation? Traditionally retro compensation is linked to pay rates and if not, will pale in comparison to the compensation portion of the package.

End result being that unless there is specific language that veers from a traditional retro formula, the UAL Pilots will be receiving a larger retro check.
Off the top of my head,

-- first class DH costs more than coach DH
-- a relief pilot rest area costs more than 3 seats in coach (the "IRO seat" on the 757)
-- 5 hours of add pay for reduced rest costs more than nada at CAL for the same
-- contractual rest beyond FARs costs more than FAR min rest
-- rigs cost more than no rigs (ever flown a 7 hour 4 day? that pays 7 hours?)
-- three days of annual sim training costs more than two days at CAL
-- having a full crew complement for a sim event costs more than not (two FOs together is not uncommon)
-- whatever UAL is paid for sim training costs more than the 2:25 per day at CAL
-- whatever UAL is paid for ground school costs more than the 2:25 a CAL pilot is paid for eight hours of ground school
-- having the same number of days off during your sim month costs more than training on your days off at CAL (days off are prorated down during the sim month)
-- ground training in a real classroom with a professionally trained instructor is cheaper than self-run CBT training at home, on your own time
-- requiring 16 hours no duty before a redeye costs more than FAR min rest before a redeye
-- does UAL have an CA relief pilots? none at CAL (last time CAL was hiring off he street a 777 CA could show up to find all three FO/IROs were still on probation)
-- reserve. where to start. Reserve at CAL is like a behavioral science experiment to see what happens when you fly a pilot to FAR min rest, max flight time, min days off, max duty time, with no predictability to a work/time off schedule, and deduct pay when he calls in sick or fatigued--and see what happens.

I used to have UAL's contract so that's just from memory. But an MEC member summarized it this way to me in describing what the company and the joint negotiating committee has found: CAL pilots are "meat on a hook."

The CAL contract language is so weak and the rules so broad that it affords a flexibility to management that far exceeds that in UAL's contract. UAL's contract is mature and settled. Grievances have been filed and settled and the language and rules tightened up over decades of use. CAL's has had two contracts, 97 and 02 and is little more than suggestions that the company will try to comply with if it wants to. Or not.

This flexibility is far less expensive. If CAL pilots flew UAL workrules it would cost an extra $111M per year in compensation. If UAL pilots fly CAL workrules it would save UCH $127M per year. This is why the scheduling section isn't done.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...ost%202010.htm

If CAL were to get UAL's contract it would mean we've been getting $111m less per year in QOL benefits than we could have had if UCH had settled on the amenable date. Applied retroactively (just like pay) CAL pilots would get $333m in work rule retro (which would average $75k per pilot).

Will we? Ha.

I've gone past my allotted bandwidth, but here's another chart. If CAL pilots get UAL workrules UCH would have to hire 642 pilots....

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...ity%202010.htm

Based on the MIT data a CAL pilot is over 10% cheaper than a UAL pilot. A CAL pilot flies 10% more hard hours per year but the cost per year is approximately the same. There's very little soft time here.

Last edited by APC225; 01-06-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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