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Old 02-02-2007, 08:41 AM
  #15  
Texandrvr
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737 FO
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Originally Posted by schoolio View Post
As for the first question, sorry, I was half asleep when I responded and didn't see the note you put in there "if you've adequately briefed the LOC approach". That is correct. If you've briefed it, it's no problem. The problem is that nobody briefs it. Palgia, if you brief the LOC every time you do an ILS, kudos to you. I don't know if you fly 121, but I can tell you that it isn't done here nor at any other airline I've heard about.

Also, if you've descended through the LOC MDA but not below DH when the GS fails, what are you going to do? Climb back to MDA? Execute missed? Now you've got a dilemma, and if you haven't briefed that specific situation, well, now what?



I beg to differ on the first sentence. You can execute the missed approach. You are correct in stating that obstacle clearance is only guaranteed beginning at the MAP. You must continue toward the missed approach point before starting any turns. Can you execute the climb portion of the missed approach without turning? Of course you can. Like you mentioned here:



From FAA Order 7110.65:

Chapter 4-8-1
Examples of clearances that may be issued include:
EXAMPLE-
"Cleared Approach."
"Cleared V-O-R Approach."
"Cleared V-O-R Runway Three Six Approach."
"Cleared F-M-S Approach."
"Cleared F-M-S Runway Three Six Approach."
"Cleared I-L-S Approach."
"Cleared Localizer Back Course Runway One Three Approach."
"Cleared R-NAV Runway Two Two Approach."
"Cleared GPS Runway Two Approach."
"Cleared BRANCH ONE R-NAV Arrival and R-NAV Runway One Three Approach."
"Cleared I-L-S Runway Three Six Approach, glideslope unusable."
"Cleared M-L-S Approach."
"Cleared M-L-S Runway Three Six Approach."
"Cleared M-L-S Runway Three Six Approach, glidepath unusable."
You're correct. I should have worded that differently. Executing a MAP is not a problem. I was thinking solely about the turn portion. You are always supposed to drive to the MAP before executing the turn portion of a MAP, for the reasons I stated. But the climb of course is no problem. However if you are in the habit of not briefing the LOC, then are you hacking the clock at the FAF? Or checking the gs crossing alt? If you're not hacking the clock and timing is your only method of identifying the LOC MAP, then what do you do when the gs fails? Granted that's a worst case scenario that hopefully never happens. But that's what we're supposed to be prepared for, right?

Thanks for the reference of the controller terminology. I have heard that before but wasn't sure if the "...glideslope unusable" was required or technique. But notice the "ILS 17 Localizer procedures" is not one of the examples given.

And I agree that you should not climb back up to the MDA if you lose the gs below MDA.
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