Nice post SeaRider. Glad to see some sane and rational minds are joining the discussion. Maybe we can shame the likes of Stinky and EmbraerJetPilot off of this board and relegate them to the internal 357 MB playground where they will feel more at home.

I do appreciate you shedding light on how you perceived everything playing out. Just a couple [edit: "lots"] of things I'd like to say in response.

I forgot about those guys. Oops.

Do you mind disclosing who communicated this message to you? Was it the message IBT was sending to the troops? If so, it totally feeds into what I have been arguing. I know, for a fact, that certain personalities at FAPA made some comments that didn't help build our case. They weren't constructive, but neither was (except for themselves) the manner in which IBT utilized, magnified and spun those comments, successfully feeding their membership misinformation in order to cast FAPA and Frontier pilots as a bunch of arrogant *******s. I can assure you that we are (mostly) not. I have always been puzzled how we so miserably lost that PR battle, but have since gotten a pretty good idea. It's called International Brotherhood of Teamsters!

Don't you see a pattern here? IBT denies lots of things they've allegedly said or discussed behind closed doors. They knew they had the numbers in a vote as long as they could discredit the opposition. They did a great job doing just that with FAPA and then RPC. They chose wielding their sword (spin & win) vs. compromising to allow the needs of all involved to be addressed. Again, why was the JC structure so bad for the pilots, yet ok for the FAs? Not to mention other IBT represented groups. We can debate to what extent, but I have no doubt IBT357 misinformed their membership about the initial nature of JC discussions and their openness to consider such an option. Something changed after those initial positive discussions (why compromise when you have the votes?) and FAPA/RPC/Frontier Pilots were once again made out to be the bad guys.

True, THIS was a deception, but who exactly was doing the deceiving? Did the IBT tell you or do you know for certain? There is a BIG difference.

Repeating the last quote once again:

Replace "RPC" with "the Company's" and "joint council" with "FO pay raise" and you have a statement eerily similar to what the 357 spewed out late last week. Hmmmmm?

Again, who is the group that lied to you? Do you truly know? It's a question worth asking. I can't tell you for sure, but there are some doozie stories told to me by people who were present behind those closed doors. My hope is that someday we will all have an opportunity to peruse reams of documents to publicize the truths that have long been absent in these discussions. But, by then, it really won't matter as we all won't really care anymore.

As you can tell, I would argue the opposite. IBT is a well oiled machine with a century of playing hardball with management and opposing labor groups. They operate much like political parties during an election year.

Before I quit for the night, I'd like to ask you guys why Mulva spends an hour in bed pecking on his iPhone about this stuff? Do I really take pleasure in it? No, but I guess I'm motivated to call out a wrong when I see it. This whole escapade just continues to bug me. IBT was always going to be the favorite so I'm not entirely sure why they chose to take the actions they did, but then again, it didn't surprise me either. It's kind of the way they roll.

I mentioned the other day that IBT got what they were after. They won and their future relationship (or lack of) with F9 pilots is the collateral damage resulting from their methods. There really is no further value anymore with discussing how this played out. It's done. There are 2 groups of good people at different companies and/or points in their careers who didn't start out hating each other, but have managed to get there. Didn't need to be that way, but definitely a lost cause now.

I'll continue to repeat myself and let you all know that I hope you get the enhancements in the new CBA you seek. Just make sure you aren't being mislead. Call your eBoard and ask them to clarify issues that are contentious. Keep them honest. You are paying them a chunk of your wages every month. They haven't been particularly successful in making your lives better at RAH and have pretty much committed themselves to a contentious and adversarial relationship with both the Company and Frontier pilots. They've limited their options. Regardless of the realities, EVERYTHING must now be spun in their favor. They've even begun proactively spinning in preparation for news that might be perceived by you as signs of a weakness or mistake by your eBoard. Out of curiosity, did the "hostage" FO really get fired then rehired? Did he even get suspended? Could it be at all possible that the Company simply took him off his scheduled trip so that he would be available (on company time) to discuss things. There is a humongous difference between firing or suspending someone and simply removing them from a trip to discuss involvement with RAHContractNow. Anyone know or talk with the guy to get his story?

I could be totally off base here, but I really do believe (and sometimes actually know) that there is WAY more to the story than what IBT discloses or spins. That's all I've got. Later.