Old 04-05-2012, 08:49 AM
  #52  
xjtguy
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Joined APC: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by gettinbumped View Post
By the way, I should have said "thank you" for actually taking the time to read and digest previous posts on the history of this #1 important issue.
Ok, I'll forgive you for flaming the crap outta me in post #47

Originally Posted by gettinbumped View Post
An additional thought. The RJ gives in 1995 and 2000 were, in hindsight, mistakes. One was brought about by a big fat lie by the company and our MC, and the other was considered a trade off for larger raises. Obviously knowing what we know now, we would never have let the camel's nose under the tent. However, if we still had 2000 scope, it would look like we had done a GREAT job of holding the line. Strong limits on the 70 seaters, and block hour limits which would see UAX being about half the size it is now.
Had it stayed at that level.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped View Post
Ch 11 is what killed scope. Killed it at DAL, USAirways, NWA, and UAL. The majors that have decent scope now? CAL, AMR, and SWA. None of which went through the Ch 11 dance during RJ grab time. AMR will now be where the battle is fought, because Ch 11 is where the BIG scope grab is. Management sees it as the big 90 seat opportunity, where the pilots have almost NO leverage. Hopefully going into Ch 11 with over 4 Billion in the bank will allow the pilots, and the judge, a little more flexibility to argue with management. In UAL's case, the vote on the BOD was VERY close to liquidate the company. It was a CRAPPY situation, and a HUGE $$, Scope, work rule, and pension grab. YOU have to live with the consequences of the Scope disaster, which created your job to begin with.
A point of clarification, my previous job was created pre 9/11, NOT during the BK. I was furloughed out of that job and the company later shut down. My current (and hopefully only temporary) job was created post 9/11, but under L-CAL's scope. Which as you pointed out, is some of the best (relative term) compared to other legacies.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped View Post
Without it, you would probably be flying cancelled checks or flight instructing for 4000 hours (unless you are super senior, which you may be... in which case disregard).
Actually, I woulda been fine flying a crappy little turboprop, upgrading on crappy little turboprop and getting enough PIC time to go to a legacy. But that's just me. My career goal isn't, and NEVER was to fly an RJ.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped View Post
WE have to live with not only the consequences of the crappy Scope, which has caused 1000's of layoffs, bumps, and stagnation, but also the consequences of lost pension, horrible work rules, and a 50% pay cut. BELIEVE me, we understand the importance of Scope. You can't compare the decisions of 2000 when we were living high off the hog to the decisions of a post Ch 11 UAL. You think the industry has been tough on YOU??? Try talking to one of our guys that has been furloughed twice and is probably raising your gear right now. Trust me, we want the regionals BURIED.
Not to start a whine fest, but furloughed once then company sutdown, displaced from the CA's seat twice, four pay concessions, and 6 domicile closures. And I ain't even got to be in "the show" yet brother. The crap flows downhill in this industry. The industry has been tough on EVERYONE. And the really funny part is, I STILL want the legacy job that's just a fraction of what it was when I got my first 121 gig pre 9/11.
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