Originally Posted by
gloopy
First of all, not our problem. Seriously, it isn't. We could get all the RJ scope back tomorrow and this "me too" bolshevism crap gets sent straight to Leningrad because its not our problem. Let the other work groups negotiate and pay for their own scope. The company could easily just off list it (or just threaten to) for them for the same price...only at a "new" subsidiary with a vert tasty longevity reset, which you know they love to do, and when the labor groups come squealing for another pilot "me too" the company should tell them the same thing they tell us..."what are you willing to give up to pay for it" and oh by the way, it'll be done on a B scale, so are y'all cool with that?
Gloopy,
I am not talking about "Me too" clauses or that sort of thing. When I state the costs of other employees, I am stating what DAL will use as an argument and a cost that we will have to make up. They will not go for paying the other employee groups here less to perform the work, they will want us to eat it. You may disagree with that, but why on earth would they agree to eat that cost, or no make us pay for it when by our PWA there is no reason for them to bring the flying back.
What I am showing you is the cost benefits of outsourcing. Pilot labor costs are a small fraction of the savings
I bet the other work groups will drop it like a bad transmission because as much as we don't "get" the whole scope concept at times, we get it better than any other group...so much so that we've been carrying their water for decades. They are not about to unionize over something they don't have or care to get in the first place but if they want to, let them "pay for it" too. I bet they drop it instantly. Anyway, in the very unlikely event the other work groups want to insource all these cheaper paying, less desireable jobs, they can start negotiating with the company. Union or non union, it's going to be a B scale that provides significant savings for the company...or...the savings will have to be amortized over the rest of the work group to pay for it. Either way there will be significant savings over "mainline book". There is no way the other work groups, who totally and completely lack the interest and foresight to even know what scope is, much less care enough to pay for it, will end up getting everything we get in this area for free. It'll be pay to play and I bet they don't even ante up at the table.
Right, like Pinnacle?
I think the days are very numbered where companies can use fake phony accounting trickery to "hide" debt from the ones it matters most...the shareholders. While it may always be legal, if debt is a big concern, they will start figuring out the paper lies and sooner or later some analysts will start costing the true debt in.
The days may be numbered, but the practice still exists, and when they start accounting for the cost of the debt as it is structured today, they will change the structure. The key for the DAL pilots is to find a way to make the winning argument and stance for DAL seniority listed pilots to be ay the controls, no matter who "owns" the jet, or who turns the wrenches et al. We can do it, but we need a stronger commitment to force the issue from this pilot group. Until that happens, no much will change.
Disagree. They (not all but easilly most) outsource because they can and for no other reason. It is, literally, a religion to them. They fantasize about shareholder conference calls and board meetings for the fake Delta Ticket Seller where they make nothing, produce nothing and contribute nothing yet collect massive bonuses proportionate to the size of the revenue laundered through their paper shell inventions. WWCEWD? Not the guy that sits at his desk, but him. What would he do? Would he be interested in outsourcing the entire airline (which they would do in a NY slot swap second if we let them) or actually running an airline with people and airplanes and customers that come to us to be flown in our airplanes by our people instead of Skyteam operated by Delta operated by Delta Connection operated by republic operated by Shuttle America on the separate certificate trick for your travelling enjoyment?
You can disagree but it saves them a ton of money in outsourcing. Airlines like SKW were able to get better rates on the debt, reduce DAL's visibility and debt service reporting, all the while keeping the virtual network alive and well. In the end we voted for it.
I do agree that DAL wants brand recognition, but seems to no want to in-source the work to control the brand. With all of the code shares et al, they really do appear to desire being a ticket broker more than an airline. We can and have in the past stopped our airline from making bad decisions. I hope that we can show value in performing your own work, and not just value that can be easily reported on a 10K. The real value of performing your own work or flying in our case comes in the form on a overall appearance and perception of a product. That often cannot be reported as a line number on a balance sheet. It shows up as loyalty with a larger bottom line, but no in the way the mba's of today are used to reporting.