Originally Posted by
13n144e
Exactly. My comments on "new hires" were only in response to a suggestion that CAL pilots needed returning furloughees to "educate" us on getting a real contract. We don't need "educating" from furloughees or anyone else. We're keenly aware our work rules suck. We're also aware L-UAL's scope sucks. Collectively we need to change these things, but of course my comments emphasizing this were ignored and, instead the last two pages pages of this thread focused indignation on some non-existent, perceived slight against furloughees and sparked more spectacularly stupid debate on whose airline sucks the least. Face it folks, we both suck. Neither pilot group should feel anything but a sense of collective shame for allowing the state of our careers to sink so low. Certainly, no one here has anything to brag about. Not having personally experienced UAL history, I wouldn't dream of "educating" a UAL pilot on unionism. As a CAL pilot, I certainly don't expect, or accept it from UAL.
Well said. I think your original post merely struck a nerve with some reading some type of perceived superiority relative to the CAL "newhires". I would hope that UAL and CAL pilots would be receptive to the opinions each has on any given subject. Neither side has ownership of a position to "educate" IMO. Each group has a different history that in the end will hopefully lead to learning from the combined past mistakes. In the end game, one can only hope that the degree of how bad it sucks on both sides will be greatly reduced for the combined group under the JCBA.
Currently there are provisions in both contracts which are better than their counterpart. With any luck, the final product (whenever that comes) will be something all can find value in and see as an improvement for all pilots.
The sad reality is that before you can effectively negotiate with the company (assuming they are sincerely negotiating) you must first come to a negotiated position between the two MECs on all issues to make a proposal to the company as well as responding to any counter offers. There obviously has to be some give and take in that evolution between the groups.
Not an easy process for sure.
Frats,
Lee