Originally Posted by
Nevets
Economies of scale...did you not see that in my post. Thats the difference between XJT now and all of them then.
Or do you expect any of us to take ANY concession in this new contract?
1. Here is a list of my own. Mesa, Colgan, TSA, and I could co go but how has being lean on pilot compensation helped them in this marathon?
Economies of scale...
Read my post again and the one above. This is not about bragging. I'll ask again, why not industry leading when that is NOTHING to brag about? You are right, we are not mainline, which is why we are not trying to get mainline industry leading contract.
2. This is about trying to get compensated what we are worth. In the end we will get what we are willing to work for. But that is not to say that we shouldn't get industry leading.
3. Are YOU willing to take any concession on any part of your contract? Do you expect the LXJT pilots to take any concession on Amy part of their contract?
4. If not, then what would be wrong with taking the best of both contracts, adjust pay rates upward, and call it a day?
5. Because that would be a regional industry leading contract! Three questions there for you.
1. There is a great deal of difference between the ones I listed and the airlines you have listed. Look at the management of those airlines and the pilot groups and stack them up against ACA, Air Wis, Comair, ASA and XE.
2. XE has already proven that your former contract, prior to give backs, could not be supported in this market place when you went out on your own. Your former management team screwed you. They gave you everything you wanted because they would always show a profit when you were owned by CAL. That is one of the reason they put you out in the market on your own. That is when your management team actually had to work. Bid for flying like everyone else out there and when they saw their own product could not compete in the market place because cost were too high, well history speaks for itself.
3. I see your stuck on negotiating 101. I am willing to look at any proposal. I am willing to move things around, give in some areas as long as that value is returned in other areas with an increase.
4. Both agreements have good points and bad points. When you say move pay rate upward it depends on what your definition of upward is? How much. For a 50 seat aircraft in this market, a market that shows it's going away, we are close to the max. For ASA it's better to place money in the future where there is room to move upward. If you want more money per hour move towards the larger airframes.
5. Get over this "industry leading contract". Boasting is very over rated.
1. The point is that you can be the absolute cheapest pilot group and that will not make you a successful company. As you alluded to, management makes a bigger difference. So why are you arguing agains getting a regional industry leading contract?
2. Of course the branded operation was not profitable at $130 per barrel of oil. We could have taken a 50% paycut and it still wouldn't have worked. But once they pulled the plug on that, if it wasn't for Skywest, XJT would have been profitable. If you don't know the history of that then you cannot intelligently have this conversation on point number 2.
Point number 3. The reality is that if you would be given the XJT contract as your "proposal", it would be a windfall only for the crj side. Vice versa, it would be a huge concession. The reality is that no ERJ pilot wants a concession. A none of us should be giving ANY concessions. If you agree with that last statement, then what is wrong with wanting a industry leading contract? Because that would be the result of none of giving concessions.
4. I purposely left that open ended. You decide for yourself how much you need before you vote for a TA. But he question still stands and you didn't answer it.
5. You just don't get it. A regional industry leading contract is less than what we deserve. It's nothing to brag about. So why are you so scared to negotiate for something that isn't that great to begin with?
Economies of scale
Synergy cost savings