Originally Posted by Probe

I worked for UAL for 13 years until I took a voluntary furlough 4 years ago. I watched USAIR, UAL, and then Delta management execute exactly the same game-plan that is being played against American now.

Please educate yourselves on section 1113 of the bankruptcy code. It was put in place to protect employees from companies that used to declare bankruptcy for the sole purpose of abrogating labor contracts. For some reason the pilot unions' view it as a free ride for the company. It is exactly the opposite. It is an additional bankruptcy protection for you labor agreement.

Section 1113 does allow the judge to abrogate labor agreements, and impose new terms, FOR THE TERM OF BANKRUPTCY ALONE. AND THE JUDGE WILL ONLY DO THIS ONE TIME. To do this, the company has to show that all of other creditors have also taken a similar "haircut".

What happened to the rest of us? The company came to us with a "term sheet". Same exact words as your management. They threatened us that if we didn't come to a consensual agreement, they would have the judge impose their "term sheet". In fact, they can request it, but the judge might not say yes, and might impose less onerous terms, in line with the rest of the creditors. AND THE JUDGE WILL ONLY DO THIS ONE TIME, AND NOT FOR 6 YEARS.

So USAIR, UAL, and DELTA pilots caved. Then, a year later, they said they need more concessions, and if we didn't agree they would "1113" it, but if we agreed we could keep our pensions. So again, we caved in. A year later they said that if we didn't voluntarily terminate our pensions, the company would not survive. Guess what, we caved. Again.

If the judge does it, he will only do it once. If we would have done this, we would have taken a 30% pay cut, and possibly retained out pensions. Possibly. In the end, we took a 40-45% cut in basic pay, lost so many work rules and benefits that it is actually more like a 60% plus cut in pay. We furloughed over 25% of the pilots, and now fly the same number of flights with 2/3 the number of pilots we had pre-bankruptcy due to lost work rules. And we voluntarily gave up our pensions.

I would highly recommend you vote no, and let the judge make the decision. He will only do it once, and by law, he will look at the haircut the other creditors have taken, and make sure that your cuts are in line with theirs. That is Section 1113 of the bankuptcy code. When you come out of bankruptcy you can start your post bankruptcy negotiations.

Or, you can go down the same path as we did. USAIR, UAL, and Delta.

BTW, if you volunteer for this contract, it is a "freebee". The company can then threaten you again will 1113, and this first round of cuts won't count. You volunteered.

I would let the judge do it.

IMHO