Originally Posted by
gettinbumped
I do not necessarily agree with the title of your post. One need look no further than Airtran's deal with SWA to see that it is entirely possible that the first offer is the best offer. Is that the case here? Don't know. Question for the roadshow for sure.
That is one way to look at it. But there is always another. Just one look at what the APA Pilots did shows you that the "Last and Best Final Offer" doesn't always hold true.
The American Pilots made a stand.. also made some changes within their own Union, didn't do a work action- merely flew their Contract and put Safety at the highest level. Look what happened. They did see a 2nd offer that is better than the LBFO.
[Not advocating ANY Work Action.. I've always believed in Flying The Contract]
Originally Posted by
gettinbumped
We are taught as pilots to not make major decisions with emotion, or without all the information. Reading the contract, attending a roadshow, and talking to reps/SME's/NC members should be the minimum that each of us commit to before making a final decision.
Very true.. except lets not forget, the "Leaked" pay rates and Retro/signing bonus held out to be true. So it's not "emotion".. it's the fact that we have had the payrates and retro amount for over a month. They were a NO GO for most of us... but even I was expecting that there were probably huge gains in every other section to explain the poor leaked info. I was also expecting equity in the company going forward.
This TA shows us what the company thinks of us, and what our own Union feels we're willing to accept.
Originally Posted by
gettinbumped
From what I've read in the Q and A section on the contract website, $400 million is 4x larger than any other retro payout EVER. So what you say? Well, it's not what YOU see as fair. It's about what the NMB says is fair. Are they willing to release us if we demand nothing less than the $1.2 billion we are owed? Again, a question for the roadshow. (I already have gotten an answer from my rep on this). Let's say we fight this battle for another 6 months, and then settle on a new number. How much higher does that number have to be to then make up for the 15-40% payraise that we have NOT been collecting for the past 6 months? What about the 16% B/C fund that we have been losing out on that whole 6 months as well?
Very good point. BUT-
If you're owed 1.2 Billion.. then it's up to the Union to explain that to the NMB.
It's also up to the Union to show the Company and the NMB the resolve of the pilot group to get what we deserve.
[99% Strike Vote?!]
Remember "The Loan is Due".. what happened to that?
As a Continental Pilot, I know what I'm owed for the past four years. Every Pilot should now. It's simple. Take the hours you flew, times what your were paid. The do the same with Delta Rates. The difference is the Loan. And that doesn't include missed B Fund, lost days off, rolled days, double pumps, lost International override, coach crew rest seats, etc...
$400 million sounds like a big amount. And it is... but not when you compare it to the amount truly owed.
Our pay rates may look great to an RJ Pilot.. or someone working for a lower tier airline.
But that is not us! We are "suppose" to be a World Class Leading Airline?! Not by this contract~
Originally Posted by
gettinbumped
I see retro comparisons to AMR who is set to get $100k or so per pilot in equity. That's ridiculous. Apples to oranges. One would have to go back and figure out how much we got in the claim sale plus bond distribution when we went through Ch11 to truly compare how we did.
I'm certainly not saying that this contract is good enough to vote in. It's definitely not a home run. I'd say it's a solid double after reading the contract comparison worksheets. Is that good enough? Can we do better by turning it down? We should each avail ourselves of all the information available and THEN make an informed decision. Just my opinion.
I agree again. I'm not using American as a straight one for one comparison. We have to use everyone to compare.
I have always said that I would Vote NO based on Delta Scope coming here.. because, as a Continental Pilot- that is a concession.
But I also knew that Delta and ALPA National had shifted the line on RJ's (of which, I disagree).
But then to see the leaked payscales, and the Retro/Lump Sum hold true... NO.
But again, I expected that IF the rumors were true.. EVERYTHING else had to be a home run.
This is a bunt. Not a Double, not a foul ball.. a bunt.
Motch
NO