Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
You are saying it was disingenuous to ask Smart Pref to reprogram so that it could handle CDO's? What about providing vacation conflicts? What about providing an award analysis to ensure seniority was respected?
Yes, that's what I wrote. They told crewing solutions to reprogram smartpref so that its prefbid. When they said no, the ASA guys said, "see, they can't program it to our parameters" or something to that effect. Not even prefibid had CDOs programmed into at first either, by the way. As for vacation conflicts, again, you just mentioning that points out that there is not an understanding of how smartpref works. The award analysis is being worked on.
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
Smart Pref has not been fully proven - the pool of pilots and pairings your are currently running could be done by a any competent computer user and an excel spread sheet. Ramp it up to parallel a full bid for one of your bases and then we can see if it actually works.
It will be used for all phase 2 bidders. Which is probably more people than what you guys have bidding in your smaller bases.
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
The ASA MEC is backing a proven system that receives very favorable reviews from the pilot groups who use it. What you are asking them to do is take a concession and they are unwilling.
And asking our group, who is happy with our line bidding by the way, to take prefbid is a concession. Not to mention that the best thing about it, vacation low, would be gone. If smartpref is not a concession for us, then it would be a QOL increase for you.
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
So, if you keep shouting out a lie eventually it will come true?
One party publicly mudslinging is reasonable?
Again, if stating facts is mudslinging and telling lies, then I guess they are guilty as charged. Happy now?
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
Again, this could have been resolved a year ago but there were so many sticking points where your MEC took extra time to protect your interests. Now you are crying foul when the ASA MEC is protecting the interest of their pilot group. A bit hypocritical?
Your own mec said that other than which pbs, only scope and pay are left. You can't do finish scope or pay until you have a complete scheduling section because rates are multipliers to the work rules. So in essence, they have admitted that they put the roadblock up over pbs. The only reason why your guys are not at the table with our negotiating a joint contract is because of their flight line or nor merger ultimatum.
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
The ASA MEC does not agree they have issued an ultimatum. As it stands, the ASA MEC will not drop Flightline for Smartpref. As much potential as I see in Smartpref, it is still unproven and until full base bid runs are accomplished, it is not reasonable to expect the ASA MEC to back Smartpref.
The company is playing this for all it's worth to encourage whipsaw between the groups. I am honestly more concerned with their actions than continuing to promote discord between our pilot groups.
The company negotiator asked them at the table if they were willing to hold up the merger over pbs vendor, not work rules, and they said yes. This was after multiple ideas to get past this roadblock that they turned down, including third party neutral arbitrator. They are indeed holding this up. If they weren't, management wouldn't be moving on to plan b and negotiating with the XJT side. Think about it. This isn't rocket science.
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
BTW, the ASA MEC was willing to do parallel test runs but the company is unwilling to fund it, and Smart pref won't do it for free because the modifications to fit our work rules would have been too extensive. If this is something the XJT MEC actually wants, the burden falls on them to make it work then sell it.
This is also false. They are unwilling now but they were willing last spring. There is no burden. The XJT MEC already compromised. The ASA MEC has not moved an inch.
Originally Posted by
Delayed again
This is exactly where the argument for SmartPref fails every time. There haven't been any work rules negotiated for SmartPref yet. To assume you are going to negotiate all the rules you want for that system is very naive.
Its the same work rules that would be negotiated under any pbs. Its matter of getting them to the right place. That task will be hard regardless of which pbs. We are talking about things like vacation and training credits, rigs, DPMs, MMG, line divisor, min days off, CDOs, hours of service, minimum rest, and a whole lot more things that fall just in the scheduling section. But smartpref does not require the capital to negotiate for vacation low.
Originally Posted by
Redundant Guy
Why drag this out further? The ASA group has one that works and has support of the group. Once there is one MEC, your guys will just roll call vote everything. Why not go back and work on SmartPref then?
Yeah, why is the ASA MEC dragging this out further? They can chose to send this disagreement to an arbitrator. For some reason they didn't like that idea.
Originally Posted by
Vertisch
Unfortunately what everyone is not discussing is that the company has offered a contract and it is an across the board cut in QOL, so they are NOT trying to maintain current status, all they want are cuts. And that was before the Pinnacle fiasco. it is only going to get worse for us.THIS is what is holding up the contract, NOT this mess with bidding.
We ALL want a good bidding system, but from our EXPERIENCE, anything with globablization is NOT good for the pilot group, only the company. No amount of work rules can change that. With what the company has already offered there is no way you can expect to negotiate the work rules you think you would need to make SmartPref acceptable. All you have to do to see how it turns out is look at Continental's pbs with globalization and it will end worse than that. We need to stop acting like children with this bidding snafu and see that the house is burning around us.
See above. Of course the company is trying to get whatever cuts they can. That's their job. The ASA MEC said that the 3 things holding this up is pay, scope, and pbs. Well you if you aren't willing to lift your ultimatum on pbs, then negotiations are not going anywhere.
Speaking of your experience with globalization, what experience do you have with globalization? We can't even get to trying to see what rules we can negotiate for in smartpref because of the ASA MEC ultimatum. And if what you say is true, even with flight line, how can we expect to maintain the work rules, much less improve them, when the best thing about it, vacation low has already been given up? With a whole new scheduling section, ANY PBS will be unproven.
Keep throwing in the CAL system. Carmen solves to zero open time. That's the biggest issue with that system. Smartpref does NOT and CANNOT solve to zero open time.
Originally Posted by
Redundant Guy
You are incorrect again. The last pass from the company back in June and it is still their position. Your guys need to get back to table with our guys. There are still many open pieces that the company is stalling on. PBS is just a small piece of the pie so please stop pretending everything hinges on a bidding system. It doesn't. We will end up with a common position. If the company gets motivated to get a deal it will not be held up by a bidding system. Your MEC needs to quit stoking the fires of division.
We are not the enemy here. The company wants to pay you less and make you work more. The ASA pilots do not.
We need to go back to the table? Its not us who are setting ultimatums. News flash, we are at the negotiating table. It just you guys that are missing because you refuse to take your fingers out of your ears. This is NOT a small piece of the pie. This pbs issue is what caused the company to negotiate rates for dual class RJs with the XJT side. If you want to keep saying that its not a big issue, go ahead and sit on the sidelines while the company uses an arbitrator decides the rates.
Let me put it this way. You say that if the company gets motivated enough, we will have a deal. What if the company was willing to pay $25 million more on the contract to get it done. Well, if the ASA MEC doesn't lift their ultimatum, how can the company negotiate with us?
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
The ASA MEC already knew that line bidding would not be part of the next contract, regardless. In that respect, Joe is correct.
I think Joe means that the ASA MEC was and still is against our line bidding and work rules.
Originally Posted by
Delayed again
Exactly. And when it comes time to negotiate those rules that you NEED the company is going to laugh in your face. They just aren't going to make the same mistake they made with us. They know what they need from PBS and that is a system like Skywest has. Not SmartPref or FlightLine.
Yes, they have already made it clear that they don't live vacation low. And smartpref does not require vacation low.