Originally Posted by
AtlCSIP
The thing that amazes me is how many guys are sold an SmartPref, yet have never actually seen it run a full bid solution. Those of us who like Flightline actually like it because we have seen it work and like the way it works, at least compared to what we came from. It isn't that we aren't willing to look at a different option, we just are remiss to give up what we have for a stack of unknowns, which is currently what SmartPref is for the ASA side. Show us what it does. Don't tell us....show us. Run a bid solution with it so we can compare.
Well, if you came from our phase 2 bidding, more than likely, you would like smartpref. And it is that your MEC is unwilling to look at another option. They turned down third party neutral arbitration.
Originally Posted by
gtechpilot
I think they are just in panic mode now that there is real pressure to get the contract done. I have several issues with Flightline and Smart Pref does have potential, but the snake oil sales pitch has got to stop. If it's a good program, it will prove itself. If the XJT guys really are sold on it, why don't they create an MOU and change their bidding system now?
It's also funny how history keeps being revised. The ASA union research team asked for specific work rule modifications, but the Smart Pref team said it was too much and now some guys on here are claiming we were trying to recreate Prefbid. Then the Smart Pref rep send out his letter, basically telling the ASA MEC they were unprofessional and closing the door to further discussions.
Funny to me when the ASA guys say 'prove it' the response is 'you're not willing to listen'.
They wanted to change smartpref into flight line. When they wanted it to have multiple bid sheets or when thats not the way it works, and it was explained to them, they insisted anyway because it didn't do it the flight line way. They were unwilling to sit down and give an honest objective look at smartpref. THAT'S why your MEC go that letter. The crewing solutions guy felt like his time was wasted. And no doors were closed, unless your MEC can't get over their own egos. Trust me, if by some miracle your MEC wanted to use smartpref, do you honestly think that crewing solutions will say no?
Originally Posted by
Leroy Smith
But a couple of years from now, no one will give a flying $&#@. Either system will be turning pairings into lines. The quality of the pairings and the other 99% of the contract (you know, the stuff that is actually worth getting worked up over) will be the major factors determining our QOL. Flightline vs Smartpref is worth debating, it does have some consequences, but how about a little perspective. While everyone is arguing over who gets to call the plays, the game is being lost.
Very good point! And its exactly what management asked your guys at the negotiation table. Do you want to hold up the entire merger over a pbs vendor, not work rules? The answer was yes.
Originally Posted by
Saabs
Would the ASA guys even want a joint contract and SLI? Isn't united a scope like deltas, as in Expressjet is gonna lose half their fleet like Pinnacle?
Honest question.....
The CAL CPA has given us replacement rights for 75 aircraft and an additional 15 aircraft growth. CAL can park the 50 seaters as their leases come due. The first lease comes due sometime this year and the last one comes due in 2021.
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
Prime example of "someone on the interweb who claims they have inside track info".
CPAs ("Capacity Purchase Agreements") are agreements between managements. You have no idea what's in them, or how often they are modified. You are claiming something you "heard" and can never prove. Fact is, you have no idea how your CPA was modified when it became a deal between SkyWest and UAL. I'm so tired of your side trying to throw your CPA in our faces and claim you have the upper hand. It's almost becoming laughable.
The bottom line is that because your side has come up with every reason under the sun to drag out and torpedo this JCBA, your side is now being drug to an arbitrator to have an "industry standard" CRJ-900 rate imposed. And of course, it will be whipsawed against our side. You only have yourselves to blame, so quit trying to spin anything into a rosy picture, and quit trying to tell us how YOUR ACQUIRED AIRLINE has the upper hand in anything.
Actually, I have a redacted copy of all the CPAs, including the latest one that Skywest Inc signed when they bought XJT. It has everything other than monetary figures.
As for dragging this out, if asking not to take concessions is dragging it out, then I'm all for indefinite negotiations. Bu this is not the case here. Your own MEC has stated three things: scope, rates, and pbs. Well, you can't really go onto rates unless you have pbs so their ultimatum did stop negotiations in its tracks. As for imposed rates, thank your MEC's ultimatum for that. Management would not have played that card if your MEC hadn't stomped their feet. Blame your MEC for that!
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
Semantics. Actually, SkyWest Inc (the parent company) gave its subsidiary, Atlantic Southeast the money to purchase ExpressJet, who purchased it, made it a wholly owned subsidiary of Atlantic Southeast, and then later merged it with Atlantic Southeast. So regardless of where the money actually changed hands, your nearly bankrupt company was acquired. Get over it. No word smithing will change that. You have no upper hand. And I doubt religion has anything to do with it at all.
You forget to mention the timing of Skywest's acquisition. ASA was going to reimbursed the 2nd lowest rate in DCI. That's why Skywest Inc bought us when they did. We were losing money because of the Skywest whipsaw from 2008 but they had to buy us when they did rather than to wait and see if we went bankrupt OR bought by someone else, to save you guys from also entering a money losing CPA with DAL. Now they can save money on both sides by merging us, pocketing synergy savings, spread cost over more aircraft, economies of scale, leverage our size with third party vendors, etc.
You make it sound like St George did any of this over benevolence for XJT and that they just wanted to save our bankrupt airline.
Originally Posted by
AtlCSIP
That's not hard data for anybody, except secondary bids. Where's the primary bid? The primary bid is what really matters, not the secondary. And we need to see it next to any other options before it is meaningful. Have you ever had that experience where you buy something, like a computer, at the store, and the salesman pushes a couple of buttons, resulting in some kind of amazing display of capability? Then you get home and all you can do is power it up and watch a blank screen. That is what Smart Pref currently is for us. Again, I am not for or against any system, but I want to see results, not a sales pitch. We know how Flightline works, since we have already gone through the painful process of researching it, implementing it, and debugging it. Nobody really knows how, or if, SmartPref will really perform for primary bidding. What do we say if we implement SmartPref, we find that it doesn't work the way we expected, and it actually ends up worse for everybody? Who is willing to take that chance?
That may be the way you look at it but that's not the question at hand at the negotiating table. Which is probably why your MEC is having such a hard time of it. Its just not the reality of the situation.