Originally Posted by
JamesNoBrakes
It's called ethics.
If going 50 miles makes for better training and allows the student to accomplish the course faster, then great, go for it. If not, then it's the wrong thing to do and you are setting an example of personal gain to the student and everyone in aviation. If you are at DVT, you have a myriad of approaches to choose from without having to go 50 miles, and they do most of their instrument stuff around there at night if I recall (been a while since I flew into PHX at night).
Sometimes there are ways to get that 50 miles on flights that wouldn't normally be, but it has to be ethical and pass the test of being a benefit to the student, not just so they'll get experience, but also cost and efficiency. Often times doing two lessons (one flight to destination, then one flight back) is a total waste, as there's no time for the brain to assimilate any new information and really think about how to do better on the next flight. Although flying once a week is going to incur more cost, flying multiple times a day usually has similar results in my experience in terms of retention of knowledge, skill and progression.
James, I agree that you should do what is of benefit to the student, although I will argue part of the reason we agree to instruct for low wages is because we're being paid partly in flight hours. Don't go out of your way to make it XC at the detriment of the student, but be smart about it too, even within a 141 syllabus you can get it done. I'm not saying force it, but if you can easily make it happen in a way that's beneficial for the student too, go for it. Just to give you a typical example of Phoenix from Deer Valley... If I have two students, I'll take off, we go do the GPS 4R at KCHD, the ILS 5 at KCGZ, maybe VOR 5 KCGZ, and the VOR 5 to P08. Swap students at P08. Second student flies GPS 30L to KIWA, ILS 30C KIWA, VOR-C KSDL, and maybe the GPS 25L at KDVT. You can mix and match it, but there's actually very little straight and level time, we're going from approach to approach, and I try and change it up and make sure the students are doing different approaches as much as practical. (Although I try and make sure the students get a little breathing room in between approaches, going too hectic with it can just be frustrating to the student and is a detriment to learning.) If I have just one student and a shorter flight, I usually can't make it XC, and that's okay, but when you have the opportunity find a smart way to do it.
Most self-pay students need the 50 XC for the instrument rating anyway. At ATP, I got all the XC time for the instrument rating during my training for the rating itself.